unfair keno video machines

Keno fans discuss their favorite game
applepear86
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Re: unfair keno video machines

Post by applepear86 »

dinghy wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:13 am
applepear86 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 2:30 am
If you think a 86% paytable is bad on 10 spot, come to Michigan where it's 80% lol.
When someone says they've won $9000 for the year, does that mean 9k net win, or 9k in jackpots?
Oh I see what the guy above said lol. I guess it depends on the person.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

applepear86 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:51 pm
I guess it depends on the person.
Thanks. I asked because lately I've seen scattered posts along the lines of "I love this game -- I've won $_,000!"

And usually it's a game with a terrible payback. Personally, I only love games that give me an edge, but it appears many players just want to hit jackpots, and don't much care about their overall losses. They probably don't even keep track. But they know the jackpot amounts because it says so on the w2gs.

In this thread, the OP seems completely implausible, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. Person plays every night all over Vegas at 86% keno, and actual return is around 50%.

That's hard to believe.

Some replies mentioned that it's really hard to hit a 10 spot, however the 10 spot only contributes 0.1% to the payback.

Maybe the 10 spot play was only a couple sessions and the person usually plays other games.

I don't think I want to be a gaming control agent when I grow up. Don't want to take calls all day from players who are steaming mad because they lost.

applepear86
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Post by applepear86 »

dinghy wrote:
Wed Jan 18, 2023 5:32 am
applepear86 wrote:
Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:51 pm
I guess it depends on the person.
Thanks. I asked because lately I've seen scattered posts along the lines of "I love this game -- I've won $_,000!"

And usually it's a game with a terrible payback. Personally, I only love games that give me an edge, but it appears many players just want to hit jackpots, and don't much care about their overall losses. They probably don't even keep track. But they know the jackpot amounts because it says so on the w2gs.

In this thread, the OP seems completely implausible, but maybe I'm misinterpreting. Person plays every night all over Vegas at 86% keno, and actual return is around 50%.

That's hard to believe.

Some replies mentioned that it's really hard to hit a 10 spot, however the 10 spot only contributes 0.1% to the payback.

Maybe the 10 spot play was only a couple sessions and the person usually plays other games.

I don't think I want to be a gaming control agent when I grow up. Don't want to take calls all day from players who are steaming mad because they lost.
The payback isn't everything, it's also the volatility offered within the game. If you're always upping the ante and doubling your bet on a 99% coinflip game, that adds up to being like keno because to win any "jackpot" worthy amounts relative to your bet you have to double up or increase. If you flat bet, you meet the guardrails of the bell curve relatively quickly and it's a poor value besides entertainment and the novelty of being at the table.

10 spots tend to be the worst paytable on the machine on normal keno. Surprisingly, a decent paytable 5 spot on general keno is better than doubling up 10 times in a row on most table games, because the negative EV compounds on your original bet if your intent is to double down XYZ times in a row to achieve an ABC amount hit. Doubling down 10 times in a row on the pass line in craps until you hit 1,024 times your bet is a 14.1% house edge proposition when you do the math. If you do a straight up single number bet on 00 roulette twice in a row parlaying the first win, that actually is a better value at 11.2%. Funny enough, table limits usually put the kibosh on that strategy, they want you staying within a smaller range for longer lol. Casinos really constrict their limits on purpose. They could offer MASSIVELY high limits if they wanted as they all pretty much are massive financial entities, even rinky dinky indian reservations. But they want you having a low limit relative to your bankroll because the goal is to not just take all your money at once, they want to pay and pay you back over and over to juice you to death. Death by a thousand cuts to harvest maximum EV from you. That's why you rarely see $50 and $100 coin on video poker outside of casinos in major markets, nor slots above $100. The lady betting 50 cents on the piggy slots with her 200 dollar bankroll cycling through it 3 to 5 times at a 16% advantage is much more valuable to the casino than someone with the same amount who goes on the 5 and 10 dollar slots for a quick hail marry. One is basically a donation, and the other actually has a legit chance of a w2. Those penny slot low rollers tend to be well taken care of by the mailers for that reason even though you'd think they wouldn't be.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

applepear86 wrote:
Fri Jan 20, 2023 8:00 am
10 spots tend to be the worst paytable on the machine on normal keno.
True. On the Wizard's keno page, he lists 8 paytable layouts -- best 10 spot is only 93.2%. On the same layout, 5 through 8 spots are all 94.9%+.
They could offer MASSIVELY high limits if they wanted as they all pretty much are massive financial entities, even rinky dinky indian reservations. But they want you having a low limit relative to your bankroll because the goal is to not just take all your money at once, they want to pay and pay you back over and over to juice you to death.
I don't have any actual knowledge, but my impression was the casinos really are risk-averse. Partly it could be because Wall Street demands predictable earnings. The best performing stocks are the ones that beat estimates by a penny a share every quarter without fail.
Those penny slot low rollers tend to be well taken care of by the mailers for that reason even though you'd think they wouldn't be.
Theoretical adds up quickly when the house edge is double-digit %. Some casinos are ADT-focused, in which case they may not adequately reward the everyday degenerates. I was just talking to someone who plays slots and keno almost daily. She has the top tier card, but mail is only $5 per week.

POKERKAT
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Post by POKERKAT »

Someone once told me that keno players are the passengers, poker players are the drivers. That kinda makes sense to me. Keno pays horribly. Look at the amount of people (millions) playing the mega lottos and yet, often no one gets all the numbers. I play mostly poker because I like to have some input in the result. My playing buddy likes keno. Play what you enjoy but know the odds.

applepear86
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Post by applepear86 »

POKERKAT wrote:
Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:31 pm
Someone once told me that keno players are the passengers, poker players are the drivers. That kinda makes sense to me. Keno pays horribly. Look at the amount of people (millions) playing the mega lottos and yet, often no one gets all the numbers. I play mostly poker because I like to have some input in the result. My playing buddy likes keno. Play what you enjoy but know the odds.
Video poker offers a lot of cheap action on the lower end, but keno is better for cheaper volatility on higher payouts. Playing for the royal is usually much more expensive than most keno paytables for a 7 out of 7 spot. 60 cent 7 spot vs a $5 non-fullpay hand of vp, do the math and see which jackpot is cheaper. 8-)

POKERKAT
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Post by POKERKAT »

Well, in my 40 years of playing I've gotten 7 out of 7 twice. I'd had more than 35 Royals, so I know what works for me.

74Dilligaf
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Post by 74Dilligaf »

You're never playing to get x out of x on keno. If you do get all of 'em, you're extremely lucky. You're playing for x-1 out of x on any x greater than 6; it's about a 200,000 to 1 shot to get 8 out of 8, but 7 out of 8 is a much more manageable 6,000 to 1 (which is a bit easier to get than 6 out of 6); for reference, the odds against getting a royal flush on a single-line VP game are about 44,000 to 1 (which is just a bit tougher to get than 7 out of 7). Five out of 5 is only about 1500 to 1.

Sixanate
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Post by Sixanate »

Great line! Things are not always fair

Cyn091955
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Post by Cyn091955 »

I love Keno, just wish they would just let the balls fall where they may.

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