Horseshoe In Tunica for video poker??

Who has your favorite video poker games? Who should have more?
ko king
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Re: Horseshoe In Tunica for video poker??

Post by ko king »

You have already said no one can beat the game. So if I posted that I have had some winning years you would call me a liar. So why would I post my results.

Because I play a lot of VP and spend a lot of time in casinos you assume I am addicted. Your words not mine.

It gets harder every year to beat VP but not because the machines are not random but because casinos keep lowering the pay tables.  Today pros have to use every incentive available to squeak out a profit and again they don't win every year.

But my point was not about making a profit, my point was the machines are the same.  I know you and a few people here have your own opinion on that  and I have mine. Again why would anyone play if they thought things have been changed with machines?




                                                                                                                                                                     
 
I think I can offer an explanation as to why anyone would continue to play if they thought things have been changed with the machines, keep in mind I'm not in any way trying to convince or alter your personal feelings. After reading some of your previous comments I'd say that I've played about as long as you have and I've seen some good times and bad times, got pretty comfortable playing the game and had complete respect and trust in the game for many years. The machines, odds and statistics never let me down, numbers would get a little out of balance at times, sometimes to the good and other times to the bad but the adjustment would always come along, you could count on it. When I got on a losing streak I never really worried about it because I had complete faith and trust relief would arrive at some time if I just kept playing, it always did. The same went for winning streaks, I knew it would come to an end. Thru all the years of play, all the ups and downs, I loved the game because I truly felt the game was completly random. I used to preach to non believers, most of which were players who spent very little time playing and taking the time to learn about the game they were playing, I converted a few people along the way who weren't stupid they were just ignorant of the facts concerning number of hands versus the odds and statistics. I remember talking to a guy several years ago who commented on the fact that I had 3 vp machines (all were $2 denom DDB at max play) at the same time locked up waiting to be paid on the jackpots. The man said he never hit anything when he played max coins, so he would only play single coin $2 DDB. I explained to the man that the machine had no idea or interest in what denomination or the amount of credits he was playing, the machine was oblivious to that information. I then ask him when he played $2 denom DDB at max credits how long he would play, his answer was, "as long as the $300 I brought would hold out". My next question was how long have you been playing vp and how many times did you attempt to play $2 denom at max credits, his answer was, " I started playing about six months ago because I got bored with slots and the first 6 or 7 times I played max coins I never hit anything good so I switched to single coin and started hitting some things ever once in a while". I took the time to explain about proper bankroll, discipline and learning all the correct holds. I made a believer out of this guy and used to see him at the casino all the time playing, in fact when he hit his first $8K royal flush he came over to me and offered me $500 which I turned down of corse, I let him treat me to dinner instead. I haven't seen or talked to this guy in about three years, truth is a lot of folks who at one time played all the time and I knew on site have disapeared. who knows what happened to them. On occasion I will run into one of them and they all say the same thing, it got to tough for me to play there anymore. Now with all that said it took a lot and I mean a lot of bad vp for me to get to the point I am now, it took years. I don't have the luxury of blaming lower or bad pay tables because I know where to find them, I seek out and play some pretty decent pay tables. In my case pay tables good or bad don't seem to make the slightest difference, it's a pretty steady beatdown with an extemely rare good night, I'm playing about as much as used to play but the good hands just don't show up like they used to, I have no inside information or reasonable explanation as to why that's the case, all I have is my results. Now to answer the million dollar question, "why would anyone keep playing if they think something has changed". I can only answer for myself, others may have different reasons. I keep playing because of folks like yourself, Tedlark, Shadowman, Bob Dancer and a few others who insist that nothing has changed. I'm holding onto that sliver of hope that you and the others are 100% correct and it will all turn around eventually, if you're right it has to change sooner or later for me woudln't you agree?  

case
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Post by case »

Fair enough Ko King. I believe what you say and you have noticed a change. Things for me are the same. I do remember people back when I  first started to play VP who used to say the same thing " things are not like they were in the old days". I guess each person thinks it was better in the past. The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. No not in the short term as anything can and will happen. My RTP is pretty accurate  over long term. Playing one coin hurts less on short pay tables and it would make your money go further but the end result is still a loss. I realize outside of Vegas bad pay tables are the norm.Thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me your view.

ko king
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Post by ko king »

Fair enough Ko King. I believe what you say and you have noticed a change. Things for me are the same. I do remember people back when I  first started to play VP who used to say the same thing " things are not like they were in the old days". I guess each person thinks it was better in the past.

 The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. No not in the short term as anything can and will happen. My RTP is pretty accurate  over long term. Playing one coin hurts less on short pay tables and it would make your money go further but the end result is still a loss. I realize outside of Vegas bad pay tables are the norm.

Thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me your view.


                                                                                                                                                                       
 
Well we sure aren't Vegas, this area started out strong and stayed that way for around 15 years, things were booming and all the casinos were packed. There's no doubt the casinos in this area would say, things were better in the old days when they had what looked like an endless stream of money coming in everyday, it's not like that any more. I made a post showing the area casinos revenue reports for the past 5 years and they continue to fall like a rock, the states take is in the same boat. It's obvious and easy to see when you pull in to the parking lots of most of the casinos, where are all the cars, the people just aren't playing like they used to. I thought when the biggest casino which was Harrahs closed down you might see a bit of a change at some of the casinos but it's not really noticeable anywhere. Maybe at Horseshoe, they are owned by Caesars Entertainment and I'm sure many of the Harrahs players went there to try and maintain their Seven Star and Diamond level, I'm just not a fan of Horseshoe. Now most of the casinos draw a pretty respectable crowd on the weekends, I try to stay away then because the places are full of penny players and vp machines are filled up with people playing .5 cent, they seem to love the fact they can slow play and get free alcohol. The drawings for free give aways even bring the folks out in droves but even the people who work at the casinos will tell you the people really aren't playing and they all pretty much leave after the drawing is over. My friend, it's just tough over here now, I want to believe nothing has changed in the worst way but when you pound away on the vp machines hour after hour, day after day playing the best pay tables availible and the bigger hits just keep finding ways to avoid you the mind starts to wonder about different possibilities. It really blows my mind to see the smaller quads show up like clockwork, maybe even slightly above the norm, it's the bigger hits that are few and far between. Noone hates it more than me, the last thing I want to do is have negative thoughts about the possibilities of changes but that's all I have left, the math just isn't adding up.

notes1
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Post by notes1 »


Fair enough Ko King. I believe what you say and you have noticed a change.  The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me your view.
 KK has been posting essentially the same thing for a long time, never accusing the machines of being rigged, but different. the only new item he has brought up was the disturbing interaction with the gaming control board. but, now instead of criticizing someone for their point of view and accusing them of seeking out others to agree with them, you now seem to have adapted a more gentler side.  between this and your first time ever offers of congrats, you are making a transformation right before our very eyes.  you are a believer and i truely understand that. what i have a hard time understanding is how one can live in the world as it is, with all the lies and deceit that each of us read every day and cannot see how some (me) might just have a hard time accepting that the same might not be true to the gambling world. and, i am not talking about some giant conspiracy, simply an adaptation or relaxation of some rules, that might benefit a deteriorating business in a location, where that business's survival was critical to the survival of that location. if you cannot see that, fine, but do not blame others for believing it is possible.

djc32
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Post by djc32 »

The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. No not in the short term as anything can and will happen. My RTP is pretty accurate  over long term.

I agree with you case, over the long term the pay tables absolutely do make a difference. With games like DDB , TDB , or any game paying even money on 2pair, just the reduction of 1 coin on the full house or flush , over thousands of hands played are certainly going to add up.


ko king
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Post by ko king »

[QUOTE=case] The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. No not in the short term as anything can and will happen. My RTP is pretty accurate  over long term.

I agree with you case, over the long term the pay tables absolutely do make a difference. With games like DDB , TDB , or any game paying even money on 2pair, just the reduction of 1 coin on the full house or flush , over thousands of hands played are certainly going to add up.

[/QUOTE]

                                                                                                                                                                        
 
I didn't mean to sound as if I don't think pay tables make a difference, I agree with everyone who says pay tables make a difference. I was only pointing out that I know where to find 40/25 DDB, 45/25 DDB and 45/25 TDB, I just don't play there. All I was pointing out is I stick to the best pay tables available in this area, 45/35 TDB, 45/30 TDB and 45/30 DDB, I'm still taking a licking. No doubt I'm getting to play a few more hands but the bigger hands in my case have become more elusive. I'm now at around 34K hands in my last 8 sessions of $1 TDB at max coins with the 45/35 pay tables and I've only hit 1 handpay and quad aces once. I wished I could say that was unusual but it seems to the norm for me, I've had a couple of good trips since the first of the year but overall it's been nothing more than a repeat of the last few years.

ko king
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Post by ko king »

[QUOTE=case]Fair enough Ko King. I believe what you say and you have noticed a change. 

 The only thing I do disagree with is pay tables. They do make a difference. thanks for taking the time to reply and giving me your view.

 
KK has been posting essentially the same thing for a long time, never accusing the machines of being rigged, but different. the only new item he has brought up was the disturbing interaction with the gaming control board.
 
but, now instead of criticizing someone for their point of view and accusing them of seeking out others to agree with them, you now seem to have adapted a more gentler side. 
 
between this and your first time ever offers of congrats, you are making a transformation right before our very eyes. 
 
you are a believer and i truely understand that. what i have a hard time understanding is how one can live in the world as it is, with all the lies and deceit that each of us read every day and cannot see how some (me) might just have a hard time accepting that the same might not be true to the gambling world. and, i am not talking about some giant conspiracy, simply an adaptation or relaxation of some rules, that might benefit a deteriorating business in a location, where that business's survival was critical to the survival of that location. if you cannot see that, fine, but do not blame others for believing it is possible. [/QUOTE]


                                                                                                                                                                  
Wish I could think of something new or more exciting to say but that's pretty much all I have. I long for the day I can come on this site and say I was wrong and vp in this area is exactly like it used to be, don't hold your breath though. The thing that sticks out the most to me is the smaller quads pop like clockwork, maybe a little above the norm, by smaller quads I mean 5's-K's, the other quads are lagging far begind the average for me. That other stuff happened a while back, the vp I was playing seemed to go sour overnight, so I compiled all the info I had for those two back to back years of play along with my players statement, the two years were almost identicle. The thing that surprised me the most was being told all the machines except for a couple of the lower denomination machines were operating within the accepted curve, 84-99.99% payback percentage. I thought that was slot machine talk not vp, turns out I was wrong. I kinda thought they would be checking the machines for total hands played and the odds and statistics for each hand to see if the machines were operating within a certain accepted range, how big of an idiot was I. I did learn a lesson though, of you have a problem it's best to just move along.

case
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Post by case »

In Vegas the vp machines have to be closer than 84-99.99% range. They check millions of hands and machines have to be much , much closer to RTP norms.A question for both of you. If as you say smaller quads come out more than bonus quads...why?? I mean IF machines are not rigging games then why do they care what quads come up as long as the RTP remains constant. Would not a casino want to see people get excited by hitting say 4 aces? It just does not make and sense to me that they would "change" something in a machine to do what you say. OR is this maybe where you guys play and as you said RTP can be any where 16% of the norm. Regulated casinos have way to much to lose by changing anything.Yes Notes maybe I am naive and believe things are on the level in "some" of the gambling world. I don't know what Indian casinos do and try not play there. But casinos have way to much to lose by nt offering a fair game. They don't need to change anything as they have the edge (in most games). If it got out to the general public that casinos were doing something to a machine it would be the end of them. 


notes1
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Post by notes1 »



 i will not attempt to speak to another posters opinion, i can only speak for myself.  you mention vegas regulation, this is about tunica. and, i would go so far to include jurisdictions outside of nevada, where gambling is not such an important part of the state's business climate. i never stated lower quads come up more often, but it would not surprise me, if there was legally allowed program, to do so. when money/jobs are involved and in some cases their very survival may be at risk, i would put nothing beyond the possible. you state that you try to avoid indian casinos. why? they are also supposed to be regulated by the NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMM. isn't regulation just as good from one regulator as another?   i think it is fair to say that neither of us are likely to budge on our beliefs. and, while you may have a difficult time understanding how anyone cannot believe in the integrity of casinos and the regulators, i can assure you, i have as difficult a time understanding how anyone could place that much trust in the same. 

case
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Post by case »

"you state that you try to avoid indian casinos. why? they are also
supposed to be regulated by the NATIONAL INDIAN GAMING COMM. isn't
regulation just as good from one regulator as another? "No. If you have any grievance against an Indian casino the tribe makes the decision.....and trust me you won't win unless it is a rare circumstance. So Notes if you don't think lower quads come up more ( I know it was KK that said this)  are you saying the RTP is not accurate? I am having a hard time understanding where you think things are not right. I think many would like to understand your casino negativity. Spell it out.

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