Blackjack, Laughlin and Las Vegas

What are your other favorites at the casino?
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MikeA
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Blackjack, Laughlin and Las Vegas

Post by MikeA »

Thought I'd try to recall the table rules and conditions at the casinos at which I played blackjack during the 10/22 thru 10/25 trip in 2008.  You have to be pretty specific with dates becasue the conditions are constantly changing even more so than with Video Poker pay tables!

All of the  tables listed below had the dealer hitting all soft seventeens.  All had no double after split unless otherwise noted.

$3 tables...I saw none that were played on anything other than constant shuffle machines except one time at 4-Queens.

Laughlin:

Harrah's:  $5 pretty much limited to non-peak hours and I didn't ever see a double deck at $5.  Single Deck BJ pays 6:5.

Golden Nugget:  $5 Double Deck.  60% pen.  Tables usually crowded.  Minimum goes up in the evenings, but $5 players are grandfathered.

Pioneer:  $5 Double Deck and $5 Single Deck.  Pen on Single Deck is on rule of 6.  Single Deck was 3:2 on BJs.  Pen on Double Deck is a good 70%.  THIS IS A VERY GOOD BLACKJACK CASINO!  Too bad they took all my money <LOL>  But if I am ever again in Laughlin, I'll either be playing at the Pioneer, Golden Nugget or Tropicana.

Tropicana:  $5 Double Deck.  60% Pen.  Pretty good game.

Fremont:

4-Queens: $5 games were all 6 or 8-deck.  They did offer surrender.  75% pen.  Just an average game.

Fremont:  $5 tables were Double Deck.  Pen was determined without a cut card whenever the dealer felt that they would be dealing out more than half the shoe!  Really SUCKED!

Binions:  $5 only at slow times.  Double Deck and Single Deck.  60% pen.  Good game when you can get it for $5 and good still at night if you are willing to bump up to $10 a hand.

Las Vegas Club:  They deal face up out of a shoe.  Pen is between 50 and 60%.  They do have $5 Single Deck Pen on rule of 6.  It's only "okay".  $5 minimum goes up to $10 during peak times.

Plaza:  They no longer offer Single or Double deck so I didn't play there.

Fitzgerald's:  They have one $5 Double Deck table with 60% to 75% pen.  This is the best place right now under the canopy on Fremont to play!  But you have to get there early on busy nights to get on the $5 table.  They do have a few $10 tables though.

El Cortez:  I only played Single Deck here.  3:2 rule of 6.  I like this place because they ALWAYS have enough single and double deck $5 tables so that you never have to wait for a seat.  You just have to put up with the smoke and how shall I say this (?) "Lower Income Clientele".

Western:  $3 Double Deck!  Good rules and penetration too!  But you do need a body guard and you need to be able to tolerate drunks and druggies if you go there night OR day!

Vegas Locals:

South Point:  Great $5 game.  Good 75% pen.  This is one of the cleanest casinos that I've ever been in that is located off the Strip.  Roomy too.  You can Double after Split here.

Fiesta Rancho:  Really good $5 tables.  Good pen.  Double after Split.  They have at least 2 of these tables and possibly more during busy times.

Arizona Charlies:  $5 Double Deck but they cut off half the cards (50% pen).  I stayed for two or three shoes just to be sure that it wasn't just a mistake on the dealer's part but every shoe was cut off at 50%.  Recommend staying away from there for Blackjack.

Cannery Eastern:  They had Blackjack, but I was still rattled from the wreck and don't recall playing there.  I'm sure I did and because because I came home with a $1 souvinere chip!  So, I am sure they had $5 tables.  But I do not recall the details.

Jerry's Nugget:  Forget it!  They have $5 Double Deck but the pen is 50%.  They have a $3 6-deck with constant shuffle.  Don't even bother going there for table games.

marie meijer
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Post by marie meijer »

MikeA Thanks for the BJ info! I just made a copy for my husband to take with us.

vidopoker
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Post by vidopoker »

the stardust used to have double deck with the best rules (split any 2 cards up to 4 times except aces where you can split twice), decent pen & for $25 you could often find a table where dealer stood on soft 17. haven't seen a place that stands on soft 17 in ages. even at the $100 tables at the bellagio they hit on soft 17.
isn't the Saraha known for having $3 tables??
i don't even bother with the cheap tables anymore. i head straight for the $25 tables and prefer to play one-on-one with the dealer whenever possible.

shadowman
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Post by shadowman »

I saw this posted about the new Aliante Station:
 
" NO CSM's -- all games will be hand-shuffled. They will offer double-deck and shoes with 3:2 BJ, unlimited double after splits, resplit aces up to 4 times. Dealers will hit soft 17.  "

MikeA
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Post by MikeA »

I saw this posted about the new Aliante Station:
 
" NO CSM's -- all games will be hand-shuffled. They will offer double-deck and shoes with 3:2 BJ, unlimited double after splits, resplit aces up to 4 times. Dealers will hit soft 17.  "
 
The Double Deck with those rules would be around 99.68% ER.  That is not bad at all!  Most Casinos will not let you resplit Aces on double deck games.
 
The Six Deck with the same rules would be around 99.44% ER.  That's not bad.
 
The only question I'd have concerns the Penetration.  Most of the casinos I've visited here lately cut off half of whatever number of decks they have in the shoe!  No way to know that other than to observe.  Even from dealer to dealer it can fluctuate.
 
Consider that 3 or 4 years ago, The Plaza had all those rules on Double Deck PLUS they Stood on Soft 17!  That made that game 99.88%!  I'd never seen anything better anywhere than that. 
 
Hmmm, Shadow, maybe we can play a few hands at the $5 DD table the next time I'm out at South Point?  <smile>  Straight Basic Strategy.  I don't want to get you "trespassed" there <LOL>
 

MikeA
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Post by MikeA »

Here's a little writeup I put together to help those of you who are interested, determine what the ER is at the tables.
 
Back in the early days of Blackjack when it was gaining in popularity, the Casinos dealt ONLY Single Deck games.  In these games the following rules applied:

Dealer Stood on all 17's (did not take a hit on a soft 17)
Players could double down on any first two cards dealt
Players could not double after splitting a pair
Players Pairs could be split and re split up to 3 times for a total of 4 separate hands
Players could only take ONE card on each Ace when Aces were split

With those rules, the Casino and the Player had an exactly Even Expectation meaning that neither the Casino nor the Player had an advantage.

That has all changed now.  The "greed" of the Casinos and their paranoia of being taken advantage of by Card Counters has encouraged them to introduce factors into the game that not only discourage Card Counters, but also at the same time increase the Casino's advantage in the game over Basic Strategy Players! 

You will not find a Blackjack game any more with which considering the rules, the Player can realize an advantage without card counting, so the best a player can do is choose a table at which the rules have the least negative effect on the Players Expectation.  The following are the rules you will find at the tables and their corresponding negative or positive impact on Player Expectation.
 
Start with 100.00% as the ER and adjust according to the factors below.

First is the number of decks used at the table.

Two Deck Game: -.32%
Six Deck Game: -54%
Eight Deck Game: -58%

Now the other rules that may or may not be in effect no matter what table you choose.

Dealer Hits Soft 17 (Ace 6): -.20
Player can only double down on hard 11: -.78%
Player can only double down on 10 or 11: -.26%
Player can only double down on 9, 10 or 11: -.14%
Player cannot re-split any pair: -.03%

The above rules are the "Player Negative" rules.  The following are the "Player Positive" rules.  There are not many!

Player can double down after splitting pairs: +.14%
Late Surrender: +.06%
Early Surrender: +.62%
Player can Re-Split Aces: +.06%
Player can Draw to Split Aces (i.e. take more than one card): +.14%

vidopoker
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Post by vidopoker »

do you know of any casinos in LV that have late surrender on double deck games or is that unheard of?
 
the san manuel indian casino here in the la has late surrender on their 6 deck games but you would only know about it by seeing someone else surrender. it is not well advertised. when is it ever?

MikeA
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Post by MikeA »

do you know of any casinos in LV that have late surrender on double deck games or is that unheard of?
 
the san manuel indian casino here in the la has late surrender on their 6 deck games but you would only know about it by seeing someone else surrender. it is not well advertised. when is it ever?
 
Haven't seen Double Deck LS.  4-Queens has late surrender on their multi-deck tables though.  It is a rule that is almost extinct other than for promotions.  4-Whores hasn't had it that long.  I think that they started it in either June or July of this year.  I know I was there the first week they had it going but can't remember which trip it was on.

vidopoker
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Post by vidopoker »

yah, very rare to come by. it would be nice if you had a 16 and the dealer had a 10 showing and they would just mention to you that surrender would be an option, but i've never seen that happen.
 
what about early surrender? is there any casino in the world that even offers that?

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