Which would you choose?

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
olds442jetaway
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Which would you choose?

Post by olds442jetaway »

If you had a full year to play, assuming the paytables were over 99 percent for both games, casino comps were about equal, and you would be playing 3 eight hour sessions a week, for 50 weeks, which game would you play? JOB or DDB. ??

Jstark
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Post by Jstark »

Well, not counting progressives or gimmick games, for DDB to be over 99% it would have to be either 50/10/6 or 40/10/6. So my answer would be DDB.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

Jstark wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 4:51 pm
Well, not counting progressives or gimmick games, for DDB to be over 99% it would have to be either 50/10/6 or 40/10/6. So my answer would be DDB.
I am a little confused. I've seen 50/10/6 but never heard of 40/10/6 for k-5 quads and the SF. Did you mean and rather than or which would describe some machines at Fort McDowell in AZ which had DDB 50/10/6 (except for the SF which was 40/10/6) when I last checked over a year ago,

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

I know 9/6 DDB is widely available at 98.98 return I believe. I’m curious how many would play DDB over 9/6 99.54 JOB for the enjoyment factor or other reasons. I find JOB very frustrating to play 6 or 8 hours without a quad. I know that by year end in the ultra long run JOB has a better return, but I also remember a Bob Dancer post not too many months ago where he had a JOB return in the 75 percent or so range. I forget how long he played. I understand in the big picture, that may not mean much, but that would and has driven me insane before.

TripleTriple
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Post by TripleTriple »

DDB. No question.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

olds442jetaway wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:40 pm
I know 9/6 DDB is widely available at 98.98 return I believe. I’m curious how many would play DDB over 9/6 99.54 JOB for the enjoyment factor or other reasons. I find JOB very frustrating to play 6 or 8 hours without a quad. I know that by year end in the ultra long run JOB has a better return, but I also remember a Bob Dancer post not too many months ago where he had a JOB return in the 75 percent or so range. I forget how long he played. I understand in the big picture, that may not mean much, but that would and has driven me insane before.
I may have played JOB once in my life when I had a work trip to Vegas. I had no clue what I was doing. Spent my 20 bucks and left. My wife got me going to the casino and playing DDB. Only game she would play and only progressives. And that's all I've played ever since except for a little TDB. So my choice obviously is DDB, preferably a DDB machine such as the one at Fort McDowell I mentioned above. Only caveat, no smoking and masks required during the pandemic. Not very sanguine that will happen.

BobDancer
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Post by BobDancer »

I refer to the game as 10/6/40 and the 40 only refers to the SF. (I know what JStark meant when he called it 40/10/6 --- and the message is the same --- it's just not the way I prefer to say it.) It returns 99.96%, which, of course, is unplayable without a slot club because the house has the advantage.

Now the Four Queens in downtown Vegas has the game for single-line half-dollars and dollars, with a 0.3125% cash slot club, double that in comps, and mailers. In June, july and August they have a play $32,000 coin-in and receive an extra $400 free play and $140 in comps each month over and above the normal slot club. That game is very playable. They also have quarter and dollar 9/6 JoB, but at 0.42% less payout, I wouldn't consider the lesser game. If people had serious bankroll concerns, either actual or psychological, then yes, JoB might be a better choice.

To me, variance isn't particularly relevant for these stakes. I don't favor DDB for the excitement or shun JoB for the boredom or favor JoB because you can lose less when it goes bad. (If you go quadless, you'll lose a LOT more at DDB than you will at JoB.) It's the EV that matters. One game with a higher EV by 0.42% is as close to a no-brainer as it comes for me. I play to earn money. Period.

For those who think JoB is too boring, try playing the $100 game, which is $500 per hand. You won't find it boring. I promise.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

I am trying to get my friend gingerly who plays only 100 dollar slots to give 9/6 JOB a try because the current incentives in Ct to entice us back in are putting the long term return at over 100 percent by a half point or so not counting free rooms, food, most gifts, and shows. I don’t know how long these promotions will last and they vary greatly day to day. My friend only has a 91 percent theoretical long term return. If he plays 4,000 spins a session which would be about a 6 or 7 hour session, his daily long term loss will be 3,600 bucks. I don’t want to push him since if he has a few cold cycles, he will just say see, video poker is no good. He has been grumbling a lot lately though, so I think he may give it a try. We go back over 40 years, so I’m not worried he will blame me if he doesn’t win. He will just go back to slots with its wild hot and cold streaks. Over the years, somehow he has been very lucky on slots defying the odds long term, but we both know it has all been luck and lately, he hasn’t been quite so lucky. At any rate, I just mentioned it in passing a couple of times. I would have to help him initially on some of the tougher holds, but he would pick it up very quickly. I know my friend. He won’t try Bob’s book or training or anything else to practice. He flies by the seat of his pants, but he would welcome my advice and company on holding some of the hands.

Carcounter
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Post by Carcounter »

BobDancer wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:27 pm
I refer to the game as 10/6/40 and the 40 only refers to the SF. (I know what JStark meant when he called it 40/10/6 --- and the message is the same --- it's just not the way I prefer to say it.) It returns 99.96%, which, of course, is unplayable without a slot club because the house has the advantage.

Now the Four Queens in downtown Vegas has the game for single-line half-dollars and dollars, with a 0.3125% cash slot club, double that in comps, and mailers. In June, july and August they have a play $32,000 coin-in and receive an extra $400 free play and $140 in comps each month over and above the normal slot club. That game is very playable. They also have quarter and dollar 9/6 JoB, but at 0.42% less payout, I wouldn't consider the lesser game. If people had serious bankroll concerns, either actual or psychological, then yes, JoB might be a better choice.

To me, variance isn't particularly relevant for these stakes. I don't favor DDB for the excitement or shun JoB for the boredom or favor JoB because you can lose less when it goes bad. (If you go quadless, you'll lose a LOT more at DDB than you will at JoB.) It's the EV that matters. One game with a higher EV by 0.42% is as close to a no-brainer as it comes for me. I play to earn money. Period.

For those who think JoB is too boring, try playing the $100 game, which is $500 per hand. You won't find it boring. I promise.
When Bellagio had dollar ten play 9/6 JOB, I din't find that boring as well. Wish they still had it.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

Yes, Even Mohegan Sun with has plenty of 9/6 JOB Quarters still will not give you a multi line game with the same pay table.

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