Best Cashing-Out Practices??

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
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stevel96a1
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Re: Best Cashing-Out Practices??

Post by stevel96a1 »

pokerforme wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 7:23 pm
I just don’t understand why Webman hasn’t blocked him yet. Like my first post said this is the strategy section of the forum. He literally says Mr Dancer is wrong? Says other things about a outstanding long term member of the forum? I called him a joke because frankly that is what he is. Things I have learned here and on other math based forums have greatly increased my returns. I respect good advice. Things he says he would never say in person, we all know why.
you know why i havent dont anything wrong, no indeed people talk down to me, and call me a sad joke and if anything the webman should ban you for negative and snide comments! yep i think thats best if your reading these webman , fire when ready...

IRSproPlayer
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Post by IRSproPlayer »

There seem to be 2 schools: 1. the long term math school and 2. others. I don't know why sites dedicated to gambling censor peoples opinions and experience, but if you post regarding #2. above, be prepared to be heavily criticized.

The people that criticize you will cite math. And that works out with math, theoretically. For me, personally, I only care about results. If anyone in either camp 1 or camp 2 can provide their written results from video poker that is usually the best test. It is a better test if they accompany that with their tax returns that show their record. It is even better if the IRS has allowed them the high bar of professional gambler. That means that not only have they kept good records, but after a few years they show an accounting profit. Those folks are also able to deduct regular business expenses from their net winnings. That is the primary difference between a professional and a recreational gambler.

You will not find many gamblers who can show this. Most gamblers lose either because they are not dedicated enough to win, they are playing for excitement and not winning, or something like that. I have met an analyzing the recorded results of many players whom I know. The winners keep records, good records, something like a diary of where, when , times, and net won or lost per session. Most people whose records i have been shown actually win over time, a few don't, but most do. Strange how accounting seems to go hand in hand with profit.

Regarding video poker, my experience has been that the most savvy players actually do have limits, and don't just continue to play hour after hour. Some do play that way but essentially they are playing for comps. Truly profitable (in real dollars) video poker players generally do not get comped too much more than average, and if a casino (like one or two groups in Las Vegas) don't just track your theoretical win/loss but your actual, if you are winning and develop a ton of points, you may be barred, or at the very least comps decline actually. I personally know a handful of players that cannot play at certain groups or individual casinos in gambling cities who seems to be profitable. This is counter to what the gambling comp theory says. Gambling comp theory says casinos comp you only from your theo, but there are many cases that if you are profitable, they will weight that against your comps.

So, yes , it is possible to make money playing video poker. There are various routes, and of course I will be lambasted for hinting that any other route but the one in all the books, at all the "free seminars" (paid for by casinos), and a that jazz...works profitably.

My personal experience is that I played for nearly 10 years with what is loosely called advantage play, and even counting comps as some kind of value I lost year over year. What kept me thinking was the simulations I had done with my colleagues at the hedge fund I worked for. We tested 1000s of different systems both strategy wise, bet-wise, with cashout limits and without. I saw better results from doing things based on these tests. Even given that, the biggest limitation was, and still is, personal discipline. The willingness to stay within a range of denominations and bets over, say, 40 to 100 sessions. The casinos have built a great system to induce the loss of discipline, along with our natural craving for the dopamine high of the next bet coming. it's so easy to go on a hot streak and press the button to double, triple and 10 fold your bets. Most of the time that will not work out well.

I have been fortunate that I received the designation where I can deduct my business expenses from "slots" (as on the w2g video poker records are designated as "slots") but i play video poker. 2024 will be year 3 of this designation. It works but is a full time job like any other, not just for playing time but the accounting and recording, and analysis of my play that takes up all that time.

I'd say do whatever you want, record your results, have a plan. If your plan is "play forever and never stop playing" it appears that the days of over 100% theoretical payout are nearly over. But if it works for you that's fine. It didn't work for me and I know the combinations of certain games exactly. If you want to do somethingelse, do it, record it, test it. There is nothing wrong with trying, and remember, 99 percent of everyone you talk to who says they know this or that, probably lose.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

Welcome to the board. I'll wait for your 2nd post because I couldn't follow the 1st one.

vicki1953
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Post by vicki1953 »

Cashing out is the MOST IMPORTANT LESSON TO LEARN
it's not that we DON'T win, it's that we DON"T cash out. It took me years to learn this, but now I use the "doubling theory
I get all my money in 20's and I play 20 at a time and if i get it to 40 i immediately Cash Out, and I keep going till i have spent all the twenties. most of the time I will be close to even and maybe ahead, and I take the original money and go thru the same process. I lose so much less this way!! and it take the trying to figure out when to cash out off the table.
JUST MY 2 cents!! But it works well for me!

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

vicki1953 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:37 am
it's not that we DON'T win
I lose so much less this way!!
I've been doing it wrong.

Let's say I feed eight 20s through the machine, and along the way CASH OUT two $40 tickets which eventually go back in. I walk out with nothing. How would I describe my result?

I would say I had a $160 loss.

But actually I won $80. Is that right? We didn't cover this in school.

onemoretry
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Post by onemoretry »

vicki1953 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:37 am
...and it take the trying to figure out when to cash out off the table.
Figuring out when to cash out is not at all difficult for me. I cash out when I'm hungry, or tired, and I'm ready to quit playing for a while - either to eat, or to pack it in for the day.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

vicki1953 wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:37 am
Cashing out is the MOST IMPORTANT LESSON TO LEARN
it's not that we DON'T win, it's that we DON"T cash out. It took me years to learn this, but now I use the "doubling theory
I get all my money in 20's and I play 20 at a time and if i get it to 40 i immediately Cash Out, and I keep going till i have spent all the twenties. most of the time I will be close to even and maybe ahead, and I take the original money and go thru the same process. I lose so much less this way!! and it take the trying to figure out when to cash out off the table.
JUST MY 2 cents!! But it works well for me!
I usually use a similar system. I pull $500 out of BR, break into $20, and start at $40 buy-in @ 50c. Pulling a ticket with a double, and feeding the beast with a tap-out After playing all thru I reevaluate the situation.
A $1 version, feeding Benjamins, has more of a pucker factor and can be blissful or a quicker road to perdition.
No scientific reason applies here. And I am not talking any kind of winning strategy here. It is just a way to do it. Some times the result is great, some times not. Of course the reason for that is it changes nothing about the odds. The gods in the machine still do their thing.

nannypoo
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Post by nannypoo »

Hi all. I have a habit of cashing in everything over $62. Everything. I don’t want to play it out. At least it’s in my pocket for a little while.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

I am trying to learn to do this, but it is difficult. My wife puts in a 20. If it gets to 22 or higher, she cashes out and starts over again with another 20. If she loses a couple of 20s, she moves on to another machine. She rarely plays 99 percent machines. Usually 96-97. I play mostly 98-99 machines. She is ahead for the year. I am way down. Go figure!!! On one of our recent trips, we played together and I for once played “ her way “. We won all night and split the winnings. No Royals either. The biggest downside for me, is having a stack of cash out tickets and a big bunch of 20s to play with. She plays almost exclusively DD Bonus UltimateX nickels. 3 lines. 1.50 a shot. If those machines stay cold for hours, she plays 50 cent DDS Bonus Deuces Wild advancing up one unit if she wins a hand and down if she loses. She uses the same cash out method and starts with one 50 cent bet. I think my old sine curve theory plays into this. VP is like a sine curve tilted down a bit. If you can cash out on the highs, you will be OK. One last side note. I think she made about 60 trips so far this year. The most she has lost and only once or twice is 400 bucks. Wish I could say the same. 😬 I think I have made about 120 trips.

nannypoo
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Post by nannypoo »

Cash in. Hundreds if not thousands machines. I’m 82. Been cashing in since started gambling. How often do you get the Royal. I play TDB and DDB. Play for the aces, deuces threes fours. Hardly ever get the Royal, but hit aces deuces threes fours frequently. If I hit, move on with my money. Like twenties too. You keep putting them in, then em you realize what you’re doing, get up move.

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