How big is the cheating? (RNG spinoff)

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
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applepear86
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Re: How big is the cheating? (RNG spinoff)

Post by applepear86 »

wildman49 wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:25 am
davidearl wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 2:32 am
\

After 11 years, my Freeplay was a plus 8%. After they put the new machines in, I played them for about a year. When I noticed my free play was now minus 8% for 12 years, I stopped playing those machines.

I tracked my play on the 10 coin next gen machines they put in. Over 14 months I was getting killed on them. Hit royals no problem, 4ok rare and stopped playing them long ago. Would drop $400 an hour on 9/6 jacks 10 quarters a pull. I said it before I will say it again, IGT can say what they want but them new machines don't play or pay anything close to the old ones.


Last night I took a ride to the slot palace, it's a bingo hall across the street, half has slots. Been a while and forgot about these last up rights left. Now I played these machines for years on and off and always played fair. Then about 3-4 years ago they reprogrammed them to add Keno. Keno at the $1 demon. no other. After that they became unplayable. They now sit empty all the time.
WP_20230326_20_08_13_Pro.jpg
As much as I hate the chippewas and the "bad luck night crew worker posse" that always wants to invade my aisle at 4 o clock in the morning, I've done the best at Soaring Eagle out of any casino in Michigan. Pretty much all of my natural dealt quads have been there and at Saganing. My absolute worst luck is at MotorCity. Everytime I go in there, dead deal, dead deal, dead deal lol. Yet so many video poker players say they do good there and prefer it. And we know they aren't cheating as that whole casino is like pocket lint to the Little Caesars family lol, just passive income for their multi billion dollar portfolio.

I honestly think all the casinos play fair AS FAR AS the randomness goes. The scam is built into in the paytables and/or the skimpy player's clubs. It's weird how bad luck can concentrate in one machine, or one casino, or follow you around. But I guarantee no one is messing with the RNG. Your luck is just bad there.

tech58
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Posts: 1374
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Post by tech58 »

I have had good and bad at both Chip casinos. I know of nothing Amiss or illegal cheating at either place. My quest is for a "guarantee" that randomness is assured thru some irrefutable and unalterable
method of encrypting the RNG and the deck composition to ensure the game is random and fair.

HALLELUJAH, your "guarantee" seems to indicate that you have found the "holy grail"!
Please share your discovery with us seekers of truth. No anecdotal evidence please that would be a huge let-down.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

I wish I could permanently adopt the fair and random mindset. So far, still a work in process. I have many reasons it is still a work in process. The most memorable on from a retiring slot tech who told me the machines are only partially random. He would not elaborate. Also my free on line practice sessions over the years have much better results than my live play. Anyway, still a work in process.

tech58
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Posts: 1374
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Post by tech58 »

Same wish olds.

Fair and random is legally "guaranteed" in a machine as manufactured. Supposedly "secure and encrypted so as to be available to no one'.

If there is any possible way to alter this then it WILL happen at some point somewhere.

All of our anecdotal evidence is not proof of anything.
But there sure seems to be no shortage of opinions of difference in newer machines.

Still searching.

applepear86
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Post by applepear86 »

tech58 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:14 pm
I have had good and bad at both Chip casinos. I know of nothing Amiss or illegal cheating at either place. My quest is for a "guarantee" that randomness is assured thru some irrefutable and unalterable
method of encrypting the RNG and the deck composition to ensure the game is random and fair.

HALLELUJAH, your "guarantee" seems to indicate that you have found the "holy grail"!
Please share your discovery with us seekers of truth. No anecdotal evidence please that would be a huge let-down.
I haven't found any holy grail or truth. I've just seen enough volume at all the casinos to know the cards are all the same, at all the speeds. If I have bad or good luck in relation to what's dealt or drawn, it's not the casino's fault.

If you're suspicious of the randomness to a paranoid degree, record your deals, cards held, and draws. Then email the wizard of odds guy, and he will tell you how far into the good or bad side of the bell curve the results are. Or just don't gamble where you have bad luck. :ouch:

applepear86
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Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Post by applepear86 »

olds442jetaway wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 1:50 am
I wish I could permanently adopt the fair and random mindset. So far, still a work in process. I have many reasons it is still a work in process. The most memorable on from a retiring slot tech who told me the machines are only partially random. He would not elaborate. Also my free on line practice sessions over the years have much better results than my live play. Anyway, still a work in process.
He probably meant that any computer RNG produces pseudorandomness, not true randomness. A very complicated subject, but what a computer's RNG produces is still so scattered it's still for all intents and purposes random with nothing that can be exploited. These machines go through a ton of tests, and if something was off regulators in less shady non native-american jurisdictions around the country would pick up on it.

Maybe the fact that people are settling for 8/5 and now even 7/5 ddb as the trend seems to be going, are what's causing the bad luck. :lol: Not to mention the payout matrix on video poker generally sucks despite the low vig. If you sit at a bar drunk off your a** playing low-paytable carnival VP, I mean what do you expect is going to happen lol? Also, if you constantly raise your bet average to bury your past losses as what seems to be everyone's favorite thing to do on this forum, that contributes to what's a very bad strategy as well. Any form of negative progression compounds the casino's advantage, with little upside. Once a cold streak hits, you're wiped.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

Well not everyone ups their bets like I do with the Clone, but it has saved me as well from many a train wreck. I use a very mild progression nowadays.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

applepear86 wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 6:53 am
tech58 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:14 pm
I have had good and bad at both Chip casinos. I know of nothing Amiss or illegal cheating at either place. My quest is for a "guarantee" that randomness is assured thru some irrefutable and unalterable
method of encrypting the RNG and the deck composition to ensure the game is random and fair.

HALLELUJAH, your "guarantee" seems to indicate that you have found the "holy grail"!
Please share your discovery with us seekers of truth. No anecdotal evidence please that would be a huge let-down.
I haven't found any holy grail or truth. I've just seen enough volume at all the casinos to know the cards are all the same, at all the speeds. If I have bad or good luck in relation to what's dealt or drawn, it's not the casino's fault.

If you're suspicious of the randomness to a paranoid degree, record your deals, cards held, and draws. Then email the wizard of odds guy, and he will tell you how far into the good or bad side of the bell curve the results are. Or just don't gamble where you have bad luck. :ouch:
You have not read my posts on this subject.
I have repeatedly stated that I have no evidence on which to base a suspicion about the machines I play. I have not complained about bad luck or losses. Far from being a sore loser I am up over $20K for the year and enjoying it very much. And I am not "paranoid" about randomness. :!:
When I ask a simple question about the integrity of the RNG, you are not the first poster to wrongly jump to conclusions about my motivation.
My motivation is a simple search for knowledge. Purely academic, ap86, no hidden motive, no suspicions, am just an old Engineer wondering, how the hell does that thing work?

You and I probably play the same machines. Bar #1 is all new machines now, and running about the same, at least as my source of anecdotal evidence. Good luck, May many hand-pays interrupt your play.
:up:

applepear86
Senior Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Post by applepear86 »

tech58 wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 2:02 pm
applepear86 wrote:
Sun May 21, 2023 6:53 am
tech58 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:14 pm
I have had good and bad at both Chip casinos. I know of nothing Amiss or illegal cheating at either place. My quest is for a "guarantee" that randomness is assured thru some irrefutable and unalterable
method of encrypting the RNG and the deck composition to ensure the game is random and fair.

HALLELUJAH, your "guarantee" seems to indicate that you have found the "holy grail"!
Please share your discovery with us seekers of truth. No anecdotal evidence please that would be a huge let-down.
I haven't found any holy grail or truth. I've just seen enough volume at all the casinos to know the cards are all the same, at all the speeds. If I have bad or good luck in relation to what's dealt or drawn, it's not the casino's fault.

If you're suspicious of the randomness to a paranoid degree, record your deals, cards held, and draws. Then email the wizard of odds guy, and he will tell you how far into the good or bad side of the bell curve the results are. Or just don't gamble where you have bad luck. :ouch:
You have not read my posts on this subject.
I have repeatedly stated that I have no evidence on which to base a suspicion about the machines I play. I have not complained about bad luck or losses. Far from being a sore loser I am up over $20K for the year and enjoying it very much. And I am not "paranoid" about randomness. :!:
When I ask a simple question about the integrity of the RNG, you are not the first poster to wrongly jump to conclusions about my motivation.
My motivation is a simple search for knowledge. Purely academic, ap86, no hidden motive, no suspicions, am just an old Engineer wondering, how the hell does that thing work?

You and I probably play the same machines. Bar #1 is all new machines now, and running about the same, at least as my source of anecdotal evidence. Good luck, May many hand-pays interrupt your play.
:up:
I was mistaken then. I kinda skimmed the thread. Good luck to you as well. :up:

FAA
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Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am

Post by FAA »

At +$20,000 in 2023, he’s got enough luck to spare already.

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