How big is the cheating? (RNG spinoff)

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dinghy
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How big is the cheating? (RNG spinoff)

Post by dinghy »

Inspired by the RNG thread, let's quantify the cost of playing with the Indians.

Hypothetical: Next vacation I drive cross-country, playing a mix of commercial and Indian casinos.

My only game is 9/5 DDB, and I've practiced to perfection. Theoretical return is 97.87%.

End of trip I compile my results, sorted by casino type:

(1) commercials: ____ %
(2) Indians: ____ %

Fill in the blanks please.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

To be statistically valid would require a verrrry looooong vacation, would it not? :D
My bankroll inadequate for participation.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

Non-contributor duly reported.

Pressing on.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Touche' :up:

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

No way to predict. Too many variables. Personally, here in AZ, I have not heard any claim, let alone, a credible one, of rigged VP machines.

davidearl
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Post by davidearl »

In my opinion, it depends on, who is doing the regulating. At the front door, and by the parking garage, is a sign. It says, "Notice'. "This facility is regulated by one or more of the following: The National Indian Gaming Commission, Bureau of Indian Affairs of the U.S. Department of Interior and The Government of the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan". "This Facility is not regulated by the State of Michigan".

Since the U.S. Government is Not in the business of checking the payouts of Gaming Machines, this casino is self-regulated.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

dinghy wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2023 4:32 pm
Non-contributor duly reported.

Pressing on.
BTW dinghy, just for clarification, my post in the other thread was not referring to you but rather to the one preceding yours. My error and no offense intended, to you.
Yours, in this thread, is just as valid.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

davidearl wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 1:18 am
In my opinion, it depends on, who is doing the regulating. At the front door, and by the parking garage, is a sign. It says, "Notice'. "This facility is regulated by one or more of the following: The National Indian Gaming Commission, Bureau of Indian Affairs of the U.S. Department of Interior and The Government of the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe of Michigan". "This Facility is not regulated by the State of Michigan".

Since the U.S. Government is Not in the business of checking the payouts of Gaming Machines, this casino is self-regulated.
Post truly states the situation,
One point about your last sentence. The U.S. Gov. agencies you mention are in fact responsible for regulating Indian casinos. I have yet to find any evidence that they DO that. Nothing new there as far as Gov. agencies go. Leaving the "self regulating" option (Fox guarding the chicken coop) as probably the case.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

tech58 wrote:
Sun Mar 26, 2023 4:41 am
BTW dinghy, just for clarification, my post in the other thread was not referring to you but rather to the one preceding yours.
Sorry, I thought it was clever when I saw it, and couldn't resist stealing it later.

I'll put this here because I know you want to keep the other thread focused. We have two regulars here with extensive experience playing suspect machines. And both assert that the games are beatable. Not every game, but some games under some circumstances.

If a machine can go "off" due to action (ie, intentional rigging), can a similar result happen through inaction? Lack of maintenance, and eventually the royals start clumping together.

I have no hypothesized mechanism, but it seems to fit some of the anecdotal evidence.

davidearl
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Post by davidearl »

Well, there's some machines that I will not play. There's some games that I will not play with a card.

First, the machines up front, across from the Player's Club. They have 99.96% Dbl Dbl Bonus, just like some of the other games, but they don't play the same. I stopped playing those machines, after not getting a quad in 5 hours. I had been tracking my "free play" for 11 years. I played a monetary progression. Up to 10 spins @ a quarter/5 coin. Same at 50 cents. $1.00 until I got a win. Then go back to quarters. A win being 3 of a kind or better. Sometimes I would go 3 or 4 hours without so much as a dealt 3 of a kind. Odds of that are suspect.

After 11 years, my Freeplay was a plus 8%. After they put the new machines in, I played them for about a year. When I noticed my free play was now minus 8% for 12 years, I stopped playing those machines.

When playing without a card, I've seen some things that I never noticed before. I've seen machines next to me rebooting, one at a time. This suggests that they are connected to a mainframe. Also at bar 4, there was a worker working on a machine near me. When they finished, a guy playing next to me, moved over to play it. It wouldn't take his ticket, so he put in some cash, and started playing. When he cashed out, no ticket! It said, hand pay! A $20.50 hand pay. They came and said "Since it's a hand pay, I need to see some ID." He said, "50 cents is not a hand pay" and walked away. I saw him later @ bar 3. He said, " They just wanted to see who I was, they don't know who a lot of people are, with masks on."

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