How exactly are video poker machines rigged?

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asteroid
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Re: How exactly are video poker machines rigged?

Post by asteroid »

Vman96 wrote:
Mon Apr 24, 2023 5:03 am
dinghy wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 6:03 pm
olds442jetaway wrote:
Thu Apr 06, 2023 10:11 am
As we speak,Bizarro World/ Mohegan Sun is downgrading 3 of my favorite 99 percent games.
To my way of thinking, downgrades are consistent with fair machines. If they have the ability to cheat, why would they downgrade?

I've brought this up a few times. No one EVER gives a logical answer to this question. They usually just ignore it.

If they were rigged, you should see "full pay" machines all over the place.

asteroid wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2023 10:19 am
Here is one method for non-random results (see IGT patent below). A self-regulated casino could migrate this from tournament software into the field.
Image
Footage of patent in action at an actual VP tournament:
https://i.imgur.com/Wl2XFZk.mp4
But they would have to reprogram it the opposite way. The tourney deals give you much better than average deals. I noticed it playing in an Ultimate X tourney. Scores were way, way higher than what a random deal would give. My gf got a 12X quad in her session, ffs. We weren't even close to the top score. At least we cashed though.

Casinos are probably too lazy to reprogram a machine to be "rigged" even if there is no regulation stopping them from doing it. Just lower your slot payback a percent. Slot players won't notice enough to stop playing there.
They don't have to reprogram it. The software has the full EV spectrum already programmed in. For the UX tournies, the parameters supplied to the software as input are set at +EV for the player (please refer to the patent excerpt and video above). Whereas, out in the field, they are set at a sub-RTP paytable EV (below that of the paytable RTP), rather than random, if they wish. In the sub-RTP paytable -EV scenario, rags are picked on the deal more frequently than by random chance just as in the UX tourney scenario, paytable hands are dealt more frequently.
In regards to paytable downgrades Vman96, an example is most expedient: If the server VP parameters are set for an overall RTP of 94%, and the downgraded paytable is 97.5% - rigging is less noticeable to the player than that RTP of 94% versus an undowngraded paytable of 99.1%.
It is very noticeable to a player like myself who only plays next hand multipliers, since the RTP delta of 105%+ versus 94% (11% plus) is much higher than the RTP delta of a civilian player (97.5% versus 94% for an RTP delta of 3.5%) - especially when compared to my experiences in a regulated (random VP results) market. Anyway, I am just reporting my experiences in regulated and unregulated markets using large enough sample sizes in both markets to be statistically valid and conjecturing on the causes of such disparities.

dinghy
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Post by dinghy »

More evidence of rigging:

viewtopic.php?p=129246#p129246
Webman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:28 am
This was once the best game on the list. Now it 's just deal deal deal, and no points to speak of. I joined to enjoy playing ,but it has come to a point ,where it's real pain... Ask any one about this. I hear a lot of unhappy people chatting. Please give us a break and loosen up games
If you look at chat, I am not the only one complaining. The games are not fun anymore. Most of us play for fun, not the prizes. The prizes are only icing on the cake.If you loosen up the games, people will have fun again.
The games are TOO TIGHT! Today is just an example. Have played 5 - 100 hand games, and have been dealt 3 oak only 2 or 3 times, and have gotten 4 oak only 3TIMES! That is 3 times in 500 hands! Bad luck? I think NOT! That is what you told me, and I have been playing these games longer than most of you have been alive, so I know better! ( I am 68 yrs. old! )
games are set waaay too tight! hits are few and far between, takes all the fun out of playing.
Could someone put my name in a better position. The deals are awful and the draws are worse........
There are better odds in a Casino than on your site. I have played in many casinos, and have done much better there than here.
I always play this game.... my favorite game, and yet ,can't get scores ,for nothing is dealt to play with . It's hard to play every day hoping that something will come up to get some points . this past week has been very bad and everyday seems harder that the last.If I do get a good hand and make it + then it falls apart and nothing after that.Why is this ?? I have been playing it for a long time . I always am told ,that the way it's always been . Not true. It used to be a fun game
Except all those complaints were about the free games on this site, which were completely as normal unless Webman outright lied for no apparent reason.
Webman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:28 am
There is little we can do when these complaints come in, other than to explain that yes, the cards are selected at random. No, we didn't change the game to make you start losing. And yes, these things happen in a random game. Often times the result is someone very angry insisting they have played for years and know what "random" feels like. I'm not sure what else to say to that.

onemoretry
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Posts: 2836
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:00 pm

Post by onemoretry »

asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 3:06 am
They don't have to reprogram it. The software has the full EV spectrum already programmed in.
How do you know this?

asteroid
Senior Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am

Post by asteroid »

dinghy wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 5:42 am
More evidence of rigging:

viewtopic.php?p=129246#p129246
Webman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:28 am
This was once the best game on the list. Now it 's just deal deal deal, and no points to speak of. I joined to enjoy playing ,but it has come to a point ,where it's real pain... Ask any one about this. I hear a lot of unhappy people chatting. Please give us a break and loosen up games
If you look at chat, I am not the only one complaining. The games are not fun anymore. Most of us play for fun, not the prizes. The prizes are only icing on the cake.If you loosen up the games, people will have fun again.
The games are TOO TIGHT! Today is just an example. Have played 5 - 100 hand games, and have been dealt 3 oak only 2 or 3 times, and have gotten 4 oak only 3TIMES! That is 3 times in 500 hands! Bad luck? I think NOT! That is what you told me, and I have been playing these games longer than most of you have been alive, so I know better! ( I am 68 yrs. old! )
games are set waaay too tight! hits are few and far between, takes all the fun out of playing.
Could someone put my name in a better position. The deals are awful and the draws are worse........
There are better odds in a Casino than on your site. I have played in many casinos, and have done much better there than here.
I always play this game.... my favorite game, and yet ,can't get scores ,for nothing is dealt to play with . It's hard to play every day hoping that something will come up to get some points . this past week has been very bad and everyday seems harder that the last.If I do get a good hand and make it + then it falls apart and nothing after that.Why is this ?? I have been playing it for a long time . I always am told ,that the way it's always been . Not true. It used to be a fun game
Except all those complaints were about the free games on this site, which were completely as normal unless Webman outright lied for no apparent reason.
Webman wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:28 am
There is little we can do when these complaints come in, other than to explain that yes, the cards are selected at random. No, we didn't change the game to make you start losing. And yes, these things happen in a random game. Often times the result is someone very angry insisting they have played for years and know what "random" feels like. I'm not sure what else to say to that.
Also more evidence of Strawmen, since I was referring to paid games on the floor, rather than your attempted conflation of free and paid games.

dinghy
Video Poker Master
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:24 am

Post by dinghy »

asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:01 am
Also more evidence of Strawmen
If you don't understand the relevance, I can't help you.

asteroid
Senior Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am

Post by asteroid »

onemoretry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 6:34 am
asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 3:06 am
They don't have to reprogram it. The software has the full EV spectrum already programmed in.
How do you know this?
asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 3:06 am
Anyway, I am just reporting my experiences in regulated and unregulated markets using large enough sample sizes in both markets to be statistically valid and conjecturing on the causes of such disparities.
I should have written "They wouldn't have to reprogram it". "They could include the full EV spectrum already programmed in".

onemoretry
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Posts: 2836
Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:00 pm

Post by onemoretry »

How do you know that "the full EV spectrum" is programmed in?

asteroid
Senior Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am

Post by asteroid »

onemoretry wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:24 am
How do you know that "the full EV spectrum" is programmed in?
By "They could include the full EV spectrum already programmed in", I mean that the software could have included the full EV spectrum rather than only just the random draws against the paytable.

asteroid
Senior Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:36 am

Post by asteroid »

dinghy wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:03 am
asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 7:01 am
Also more evidence of Strawmen
If you don't understand the relevance, I can't help you.
In that case, I'm sure Webman would be more than happy to issue a statement about how video poker outside his purveyance (i.e. on unregulated casinos' floors) is equally fair to that on videopoker.com .

dinghy
Video Poker Master
Posts: 1314
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:24 am

Post by dinghy »

asteroid wrote:
Thu May 04, 2023 9:12 am
In that case, I'm sure Webman would be more than happy to issue a statement about how video poker outside his purveyance (i.e. on unregulated casinos' floors) is equally fair to that on videopoker.com .
He gave his perspective in the linked post. Personally, I don't see any point in trying to communicate with you, but he may feel otherwise.

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