Suggestions Please

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
brmcc74
Senior Member
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 pm

Suggestions Please

Post by brmcc74 »

So the deal is Im down 6560 credits this week on a 3 day trip. Im wondering what everyones plan would be. Keep at the current denom, or switch to a higher denom to try and recoup some of the original bkrl? Just curious how different people would approach this.

damule
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:59 pm

Post by damule »

All depends on what you're financially comfortable with. I've had trips when the economy was good where I'd be down over $10k playing multi-play dollars and I moved up to $2 or $5 to try and get back. Sometimes it would work, sometimes I'd get smacked worse. Only you can answer the question what you're comfortable with as far as bankroll and money management is concerned. For myself now, I try to set win/loss parameters and stick with them. However, this is much easier said than done and I'll give you an example:
 
You decide you're going to play 3-play quarters DDB ($3.75/deal). You put $300 in to begin with and you decide if you double it you'll stop or if you lose it you'll stop. Three hands in you get dealt 3 aces which you hold and catch a quad with a kicker. Your credit meter reads $792.50. You have now more than doubled your win limit for that session, what do you do? Your spouse is off shopping or in the spa or doing whatever, the room isn't cleaned yet by room service, you've been looking forward to this trip for months, it's a 9/6 paytable and nowhere else nearby has this game. What do you do? The right answer is cash out and go walk around or people watch or sit in a lounge and sip on your favorite beverage for an hour or so. The wrong answer is what myself and 99% of you out there do. We say to ourselves: "gee I'm $192 over my win limit, I can play this down to $600" or "I've waited weeks or months for this trip and I want to play more" or "I can switch to 5-play and hit another quad and get to $1000." What happens next:
 
We continue to play. The results will vary. Rarely we keep getting nice hits and the credits keep moving up. Most times we get quickly down to that magical number, $600 in this case, and we play a hand look at the meter and it shows $598.50. Now what, we need to get back over $600, should only take a few hands. I'll switch back to 3-play. Next thing we know the meter shows $487.00. You see where I'm going with this. If we have enough discipline we stop before we lose all our winnings and the $300 we started with. Worse case is we lose what we started with and start putting more in. Does any of this sound familiar to anybody or everybody?
 
Bottom line is all about discipline. Think about how much more our bankrolls would be if we all payed attention to our limits. This is the dark side of video poker. It is gambling, it is a risk, it is addictive. I have not been able to master my discipline yet. I know this for certain, those that do master their discipline are the true experts at this game.
 
 

BillyJoe
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm

Post by BillyJoe »

I try to remember that the primary goal is to HAVE FUN. Now, winning at VP is automatically having fun, but even if you are down, do whatever you want that would allow to you to have some fun. If that means continuing on playing, fine.
I agree with Mule, that money management is key. But if you are a casual player, and you hit a bad streak, remember that you are "paying" for the entertainment. If you are not being entertained during a losing session, time to go.

brmcc74
Senior Member
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 pm

Post by brmcc74 »

Thanks for the comments. Ill probably just stick with the same denom. Eventually Ill get it back I guess since Ive just had several bad sessions. Playing the 9/6 ddb, along with points/comps hopefully this will turn around since it all evens out in the end. It stopped being fun after -6000 credits.

spxChrome
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:21 pm

Post by spxChrome »

lol @damule, that is how the story goes.
 
As for the original question, i usually stop and play something else, go play some slots or a high progressive.  Anything to get away from the machine.  Going on tilt makes it all worse, you have to take a break and get your head back on straight.
 
fwit, I usually start with high denom to win a bankroll to play on.  Doesn't always work out but if I can get a little something it gives me a few hands to draw on before going into my own money and by that time I usually start getting into groove.
 
 
 

Frank Kneeland
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:59 pm

Post by Frank Kneeland »

I have to admit I'm a bit stumped by this thread. You said you were down 6560 credits, but you made no mention of what you were playing or what your edge was. This dumbfounds me. Not only did no one comment on this omission, someone goes on to state that the primary goal of gambling is "Having Fun". I always thought the primary goal of gambling was to make money. So here's my take on your question. Keep in mind this comes from a 20 year veteran pro VP player.If you are playing with an Edge you should ignore results and believe in the math. You may wish to check on a VP trainer that you are playing correctly if you think your accuracy could in anyway be effecting your results.  If it isn't play-on.If you aren't playing with an Edge, stop immediately and never play again unless you actually enjoy losing money. Because this is what's supposed to happen when you play with the odds against you.For a bankroll you should have enough to have a less than .1% Risk of Ruin, playing the game of your choice. If you don't know what a Risk of Ruin is or how to calculate it--again you should stop playing immediately and go learn how to do those things before you play again.How much you have lost is completely irrelevant to any decision of whether to play or not. The only things that influence a decision on what to play is your edge, and your risk factor based on bankroll.If you are looking for ballpark figures $25,000 BR for quarter play and $100,000 for Dollar play should ensure a nice income, if you reserve your play to .75% edge games an above.It is perfectly possible to always play with an Edge in casinos today, with no more than six months study and about 2 years of daily play to get up to speed.I personally cannot understand why anyone would choose to lose, when they must surely know the only thing required to win is study and work.Of course you are probably just a recreational gambler, and now think I'm crazy. I would not begin to dispute that. Anyway that's the professional opinion for what it's worth, sorry if it doesn't apply to you. I thought you might like a window into how we crazy people think.~Frank Kneeland, Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives--A History and How-To of Video Poker Slot Teams in Las Vegas.  And co-host of the Radio Show--Gambling with an Edge--with Bob Dancer. More info: www.progressivevp.comP.S. Gambling fun? A good job, yes. But fun? One of us is very odd...

brmcc74
Senior Member
Posts: 295
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:19 pm

Post by brmcc74 »

thanks for the reply. Actually Im a recreational player. I play 2-3 times a week with a BKRL of 2000 credits each session. I thought that I play perfectly but recently noticed that Im around 99%+ after about 1000 hands but not perfect. I can live with that. Dont really care about the money because I stayed at a lower denom to play even more. Also my games have been between 9/6 DDB and 8/5 BP. 98.98 and 99.60. These are the best games available where Im located. Im not trying to quit my day job and make a living at this but rather trying to reduce my losses. Never really calculated risk of ruin but am willing to listen if someone offers. I dont think anyone is crazy unless they are ofcourse.

Frank Kneeland
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Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:59 pm

Post by Frank Kneeland »

Well I know Dan Paymar's software OpVP has Risk of Ruin built in, and I believe VPW has something similar. I'm on a linux computer, so I prefer Dan's, but of course VPW is the more popular. Stick to 9/6 and ditch the 8/5 BoPo.And now I can answer your original question. If you are down "an amount" and have played enough to get the comps you require, you should not continue to play, because you aren't playing with an Edge. Your expectation is to lose more, not win anything back.Play enough to get the perks you want and no more.~FKP.S. Actually, you should probably just disregard anything I say. I have very little understanding of recreational play, and little to offer on the subject. I'm trying though. It's been my job for so long, I've lost sight of the other side of the fence. How's the grass?

faygo
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:55 am

Post by faygo »

Remember, if the grass is greener on the other side of the fence- water yours.

BillyJoe
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Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm

Post by BillyJoe »

someone goes on to state that the primary goal of gambling is "Having Fun". I always thought the primary goal of gambling was to make money. P.S. Gambling fun? A good job, yes. But fun? One of us is very odd...

Well, Frank, as the 'someone' who identified the goal as having fun, let me explain. I view myself as a 'player', not a 'gambler'. If I was a gambler, I would be playing different games from VP. I beleive the casino ALWAYS has an edge in every game that is sitting on the casino floor, and that you cannot beat them on a consistent basis. True, the comps make up for some of that casino edge which is why I NEVER play in a casino where I am not receiving comps. For example, Venetian/Palazzo recently announced their intent to no longer comp low and mid-level players. You will not see me in their casinos.
I live in FLA, and I beleive, true or not, that the VP on the Vegas strip is honest. But if I make about 8 trips a year to Vegas, and stay about 5 days each trip, I have no chance of playing to a point of making the VP math work to my favor. So, when I go, I play where I am comped, and where I can enjoy myself. Getting another credit for a full house at some other casino is not going to make a big difference in my return for that trip.
Maybe I am just falling into the trap that the casinos have set, but they treat me well, and yes, I ALWAYS have fun on my visits, win or lose.

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