Wheel Poker w/Quick Quads for Southpoint Players

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
alpax
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Re: Wheel Poker w/Quick Quads for Southpoint Players

Post by alpax »

I can't find where I got the 2700 machines from, so don't take that as gospel.

The Southpoint is a rather large property as a non-Strip casino, so it may sound right if they do have over 2000.

No, I haven't heard a thing from Mlife, despite running a fair amount of coin-in. A quick $500 loss doesn't register too much though; hardly any points were earned. And, a bunch of play was at Aria - who is pretty tight on room comps. Cosmo, on the other hand, sent me some free week nights almost immediately.

I think for strip places, you have to be prepared to play to a point to where you get into CET Platinum or mLife Pearl in one trip.

Only way to tell is to create an mLife online account and see what is provided.

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

I can't find where I got the 2700 machines from, so don't take that as gospel.

The South Point website claims they have over 2390 machines

http://southpointcasino.com/casino

alpax
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Post by alpax »

A bit of more good news, at least hopefully for PPP. The WoO Video Poker Analyzer has the breakdown of odds of the wheel slice values. I was able to decipher the odds from the decimal numbers used.

50 Credits 1 in 7.69 (13%)
60 Credits 1 in 6.46 (15.48%)
80 Credits 1 in 7.69 (13%)
100 Credits 1 in 9.79 (10.215%)
125 Credits 1 in 14.68 (6.812%)
150 Credits 1 in 7.18 (13.928%)
200 Credits 1 in 8.5 (11.765%)
250 Credits 1 in 9.5 (10.526%)
500 Credits 1 in 29.36 (3.406%)
1000 Credits 1 in 80.75 (1.238%)
2000 Credits 1 in 161.5 (0.619%)

To get the average / mean.

(50 / 7.69) + (60 / 6.46) + (80 / 7.69) + (100 / 9.79) + (125 / 14.68) + (150 / 7.18) + (200 /8.5) + (250 / 9.5) + (500 / 29.36) + (1000 / 80.75) + (2000 / 161.5) = 157.456828941

So I was nearly correct with my 157.5 Credit per average wheel spin estimate.

[QUOTE=billryan] I can't find where I got the 2700 machines from, so don't take that as gospel.

The South Point website claims they have over 2390 machines

http://southpointcasino.com/casino [/QUOTE]

Thank you for finding out the quantity (as a primarily Vegas strip player). It is still a lot for casino norms.


billryan
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Post by billryan »

SP has 127,000 Square feet of casino space. That's smaller than Caesars, but larger than Red Rock.
Pretty sure that puts in in the top ten, size wise, in Vegas.

onemoretry
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Post by onemoretry »


Notable Strategy Differences between 9/6 Jacks or Better QQ and WPwQQ – The intimidating part
Thank you very much for making the effort to produce this information. I have always suspected that the increased value of a quad resulting from the wheel spin would affect playing strategy, but I've not been inclined to look deeply into it. It is, after all, a game I play only sporadically (4 or 5 hours every year or two).

I will be making some notes on my QQ strategy sheet to consult the next time we're at South Point and playing this game.


alpax
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Post by alpax »

You are welcome OMT.

I wish you the best in playing WPwQQ. I believe I regrettably told you that it might be ok to use regular JoB QQ strategy towards it, but I at least found out a few adjustments are needed. The adjustments that I listed are for players that are proficient in 9/6 JoB Quick Quads. I would recommend that if you ever win a free week of GOLD membership from the contests, it will be good to use it towards practicing Quick Quads. The single hand one on Five Star Poker here properly pays out 236 credits for Quad where the multihand one pays out 235 credits.

The order is by descending amounts, so top to bottom priority. Once you trained enough with JoB QQ on the website, just use these as footnotes. Aside for these 8 adjustments, I do not think you would be interested in getting the last 0.0009% return.

For Difference #1 which is by far the most important. I did not include visual representations so I edited the original post with the following:

For a dealt full house with 6/7/8/9/10 full, break it up every time.

If the other pair is of higher rank, discard the pair.

Q ♥ Q ♦ 9 ♥ 9 ♦ 9 ♣
QQ - Q ♥ Q ♦ 9 ♥ 9 ♦ 9 ♣
WPwQQ - 9 ♥ 9 ♦ 9 ♣

If the other pair is of lower rank, hold one of them to get 5 outs at a Quick Quad.

7 ♥ 7 ♦ 8 ♥ 8 ♦ 8 ♣
QQ - 7 ♥ 7 ♦ 8 ♥ 8 ♦ 8 ♣
WPwQQ - 7 ♦ 8 ♥ 8 ♦ 8 ♣
Outs for a Quick Quad: 8 ♠, A ♠, A ♥, A ♦, A ♣

For a full house with 3/4/5 full,

Break it up only if the other pair is of lower rank. Hold one of the cards from the lower ranked pair to get 5 outs at a Quick Quad.

3 ♥ 3 ♠ 4 ♥ 4 ♦ 4 ♣
QQ - 3 ♥ 3 ♠ 4 ♥ 4 ♦ 4 ♣
WPwQQ - 3 ♠ 4 ♥ 4 ♦ 4 ♣
Outs for a Quick Quad: 4 ♠, A ♠, A ♥, A ♦, A ♣

Otherwise keep the Full House.

8 ♥ 8 ♦ 5 ♥ 5 ♦ 5 ♣
QQ - 8 ♥ 8 ♦ 5 ♥ 5 ♦ 5 ♣
WPwQQ - 8 ♥ 8 ♦ 5 ♥ 5 ♦ 5 ♣

For Difference #6, I mentioned about 235 straight flush beating 2345 straight. I did not include visual representation for that, and I did not include if the last card is not a high card.

The 235 Straight Flush beats a 2345 Straight when the fifth card is not a high card Jack/Queen/King

2 ♥ 3 ♥ 4 ♦ 5 ♥ 7 ♣
QQ - 2 ♥ 3 ♥ 4 ♦ 5 ♥
WPwQQ - 2 ♥ 3 ♥ 5 ♥

Sea Lion
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Post by Sea Lion »

Wow, Alpax... this is making my head explode, in a good way!! This is so awesome of you to break these games down so that we can play them to the fullest extent.

BobDancer
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Post by BobDancer »

This was a senior moment accidental post. Is there a way to delete one of your own posts here?






BobDancer
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Post by BobDancer »

I've been unaware of this thread. I hadn't looked closely at this game because I didn't have a good figure for the average amount of the wheel spin. Looking into the game on the WOO website for the commercial for the GWAE commercial on the game, I saw that Shack suggested that a bonus of 157+ was the one to use. This jives with what Alpax came up with on his own. Good work.This might be a good game to teach for next semester's free video poker classes. I teach one QQ game per semester and I rotate them because different players want different games. At 99.6%, this falls well into the range of an acceptable game to teach.I haven't looked at it recently but I seem to remember it was limited to quarter triple play --- hence $10.50 per hand and very uninteresting to me personally --- maybe my memory is wrong. while it's not a game I would play, some of the students of the classes would be comfortable with games that size. I'll check it out next time I'm on property.One notational "beef" with Alpax.  On a hand like 88877, he (correctly) says to hold 8887, which he incorrectly suggests gives you five chances at a QQ. That is just not true. It gives you four chances at a QQ, and one chance at a regular 4-of-a-kind. They all pay the same, so arguably this is distinction without a difference, but  . . .  Don't worry. I'll get over it.Whatever number of machines the South Point website says it has, I strongly suspect the number isn't updated daily. And, as at every other well-run casino, they frequently tweak the floor layout. So if it was 2390 the last time they counted, I guesstimate there is a 90% probability that there are between 2300 - 2500 machines today. I doubt the casino is trying to fool anybody on this, it's just that the exact number isn't very important to anybody. They've used the "more than 10,000 games" slogan for some time --- and I know of many games that used to be there and aren't there anymore (like 9/6 DDB QQ in three denoms and three "number of lines" and four machines). That's a decrease of 36 games. I suspect that when they first started using the slogan they actually had more than 12,000 such games, so that the ebb and flow of the actual number doesn't matter very much. 


alpax
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Post by alpax »

Wow, Alpax... this is making my head explode, in a good way!! This is so awesome of you to break these games down so that we can play them to the fullest extent.

Thank you for the compliment and it is nice to hear from you again Sea Lion. I have some more analysis in mind to explore but have been too preoccupied to get it done. I was not going to spoil anyone by maintaining the once per week pace. This is one of the harder games to master and will require the more skill than average.

This was a senior moment accidental post. Is there a way to delete one of your own posts here?



The option to delete a post button is only available on the latest post of the thread. It is right next to edit button, but I am not sure if it shows up if someone immediately posts something on the thread.

I've been unaware of this thread. I hadn't looked closely at this game because I didn't have a good figure for the average amount of the wheel spin. Looking into the game on the WOO website for the commercial for the GWAE commercial on the game, I saw that Shack suggested that a bonus of 157+ was the one to use. This jives with what Alpax came up with on his own. Good work.This might be a good game to teach for next semester's free video poker classes. I teach one QQ game per semester and I rotate them because different players want different games. At 99.6%, this falls well into the range of an acceptable game to teach.I haven't looked at it recently but I seem to remember it was limited to quarter triple play --- hence $10.50 per hand and very uninteresting to me personally --- maybe my memory is wrong. while it's not a game I would play, some of the students of the classes would be comfortable with games that size. I'll check it out next time I'm on property.One notational "beef" with Alpax.  On a hand like 88877, he (correctly) says to hold 8887, which he incorrectly suggests gives you five chances at a QQ. That is just not true. It gives you four chances at a QQ, and one chance at a regular 4-of-a-kind. They all pay the same, so arguably this is distinction without a difference, but  . . .  Don't worry. I'll get over it.Whatever number of machines the South Point website says it has, I strongly suspect the number isn't updated daily. And, as at every other well-run casino, they frequently tweak the floor layout. So if it was 2390 the last time they counted, I guesstimate there is a 90% probability that there are between 2300 - 2500 machines today. I doubt the casino is trying to fool anybody on this, it's just that the exact number isn't very important to anybody. They've used the "more than 10,000 games" slogan for some time --- and I know of many games that used to be there and aren't there anymore (like 9/6 DDB QQ in three denoms and three "number of lines" and four machines). That's a decrease of 36 games. I suspect that when they first started using the slogan they actually had more than 12,000 such games, so that the ebb and flow of the actual number doesn't matter very much. 



I welcome all feedback and I appreciate the extensive feedback.

I do not have any serious playing experiences with Quick Quads, I am aware what the game is about and that some folks do enjoy this game. I did a comparison with Quick Quad and Wheel Poker with Quick Quads strategy, it was also a good opportunity to correct the misinformation I gave to OMT in the past.

I never came across the machine to know what the configurations are, the website supports 3 and 5 play at 7 credits per line to enable the full bells and whistles.

For quarters, it will be $5.25 a round for 21 credits / 3 play and $8.75 a round for 35 credits / 5 play. If half-dollar denomination is available, it will be double.

It was my mistake by stating 5 Quick Quad outs. As correctly assumed, I went with that terminology since a natural quad and quick quad both pays the same, 236 credits on Jacks or Better.

It is 4 Quick Quads and 1 Natural Quad for the correct terminology. Regardless Difference #1 should no doubt be taken seriously. Not breaking up the full house when necessary could cost the player about 10-12 credits for each mistake.

I also appreciate the lengthy explanation of the "10,000 games returning more than 99%" claim by the Southpoint Casino.

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