"IF YOU BELIEVE IT'S RIGGED, WHY PLAY?"

Discuss proper hold strategies and "advantage play" and ask questions about how to improve your play.
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DaBurglar
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"IF YOU BELIEVE IT'S RIGGED, WHY PLAY?"

Post by DaBurglar »


Ok, it was raised  AGAIN (and again....and again) in another recent thread, so here, finally, we'll have a thread that is devoted to this ongoing question that seems to perturb so many of our erstwhile forum members (most of whom are reasonable, intelligent, fair decent folks)......For the record, I actually (partially) addressed this very same question inside a post I made somewhere on this forum perhaps as recent as two weeks ago but for the life of my I cannot find it....I would have thought certain other forum members, who in the past have demonstrated a certain ZEAL for cataloging and keeping track of my own personal posts far in excess of what I myself do, would be able to locate and cite my comment(s) but alas I guess they missed that one (or perhaps what I actually DID post on this question topic was something that was too reasonable, logical and incompatible with their "agenda" vis-a-vis little ol' MOI)The short answer to this annoyingly germane and persistently logical question is....."I have no idea".....or "It depends on the individual player".....or "None of your business, leave me alone or I'm calling the cops...or my mother....or Webman...."    Another terse-yet-sophisticated response would be     <Bill Clinton Voiceover> "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'RIGGED' is..."</end Bill Clinton Voiceover>ALl I can do is amplify what I have previously stated and expressed in numerous other posts, albeit never in the specific concentrated manner in which I now do in this thread specifically DEVOTED to this question.    I strongly urge/implore OTHER people who have thoughts on this question/issue to post here and add their voice to the conversation......My first statement is that I DO NOT BELIEVE Video Poker is RIGGED.....(I could end on that note but I won't).......I have REPEATEDLY, EMPHATICALLY explained and expounded that I am OF THE OPINION, based on my actual specific play results (and the analysis thereof) since 2010-2011 in the city of Atlantic.....um, City.....that certain casinos in AC have been offering VP games/machines that somehow are producing play results which are statistically abnormal in terms of Negative/losing results.   I formed this conclusion based on:-- Comparing my previous 18-20 years of VP play  (1992-2010'ish) that primarily took place in Nevada Casinos in Vegas/Reno and what I saw and perceived with what was happening in AC casinos (2011 thru 2016);    I used to keep meticulous records on my play in Nevada, since this was before computers and the explosion in data retrieving/storage devices.....I did this the first couple years playing in AC but when I immediately began to see and experience abnormal results, I focused on just playing PERFECT and doing all the right things to make sure I myself was NOT responsible for the aberrationally bad results....it didn't help.--  The continued "losing streak" did not abate for any significant period of time or amount of money, it did not matter what games I played either in AC.....one small factor that did fluctuate was the fact that when playing at the four (and then three) Caesars -CET casinos in AC, the bad or negative results seemed somewhat MORE profound  starting in 2013 when they made the wholesale switch to SERVER BASED operations for all VP games.  -- I am not saying I never EVER won or saw other players win during my years playing in AC.....certainly people were still hitting Royals and other good hands......but the end results, the bottom line  NEVER truly improved, it only became WORSE, if anything.     As I pondered this situation, and more importantly, as I frequently and persistently ASKED OTHER PEOPLE & Players, particularly  CET  Seven Star Players with whom I developed at least Casual Friendships over the years starting in 2010, I discovered I was FAR from the only person who noticed these changes and differences in play results.    It was NOT a coincidence and NOT a case of Confirmation Bias;   Other players, far more prolific and experienced players than MYSELF, were seeing and experiencing some sort of statistically abnormal play results in AC casinos that they previously had never seen before, ANYWHERE or at ANYTIME.-- Thus, after much deliberation and analysis and discussion (including on THIS forum), I made the conscious decision in mid-to-late 2016 to significantly cut back/curtail my total OVERALL video poker play in the casinos of AC.   Whereas, from 2010 to late 2016, I used to go to AC once a month for a minimum of 5 days (and more often for as long as 7-10 days...with a set, NON-fluctuating average Bankroll of $2000 for each trip devoted to VP),  I now go 3 to four times A year for a MAXIMUM of 5 days a trip (albeit with a slightly Higher Bankroll of $3000 that I allow for Video Poker).      SO right there, for those people out there who have expressed particular, and pointed, exasperation and annoyance with what they seemingly view as hypocrisy or stupidity or stubborn pride on MY PART for continuing to play Video Poker that I believe to be "rigged" (even though, again, THAT too is not the actual situation) ...... NOW you have your answer, at least as far as Da Burglar is personally concerned with the casinos of AC, I have indeed cut wayyyy back but have not "eliminated" playing VP in AC.   As mentioned many times previously, I often focus my time, energy and money on LIVE poker and games like Texas Hold 'em and tournaments.  Of course, I cannot speak for anyone else......I would also throw these thoughts out there.....-- It is still very conceivable, even logical, that a certain number of "rigged" (or controlled, non-perfectly randomized set to spew out results for payoff that are 97% when they advertise 98.9%, or 99.2%  or whatever) Video Poker machines in a overall population of normal machines is a more desirable target for one's bankroll than a sea of SLOT machines that are 100% legit which offer payback of 92-93%!!!--  It is possible that casinos in question do not (or are not) ALWAYS have their machines set in the "Rigged" or "Controlled" mode 100% of the time.....this would be logical assuming there is something nefarious going on in the first place.   CAsinos would periodically set, and then re-set, and then re-re-set  etc.  according to ongoing inspections and analysis by the regulatory powers that BEEEEE.....And of course, ultimately, even when human beings KNOW that a specific fight or contest is NOT going to result in an outcome favorable to them, they STILL fight the FIGHT anyway.......there are many many reasons for this happening.



billryan
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Post by billryan »

Why does America refuse to take advantage of the almost unlimited supply of cheese available on the moon?

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

I will simply offer this. I have no idea either. However, I can and do play Wolf VP for fun with the same paytables and games I play at Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods. I will stay right about around even playing for fun and maybe down just a notch, yet give the casinos ten's of thousands of dollars a year. My casino results since inception are between 95 and 98.5 percent. That represents millions of hands over the last 25 years. I will offer one theory that may explain what I think is going on. The losing windows seem longer at the casinos. The winning windows seem much shorter at the casinos with big wins concentrated into very small time frames. Maybe their percentages do add up to the paytables, but if you miss these very small windows most of the time which I tend to do, you are going to come out on the losing end of the stick.

     Edited to just add this....At the casinos I have had Royalless runs 3 or 4 times well in excess of 500,000 hands. That has never happened or even close playing Wolf Video Poker. I don't play much on this site due to the ads disrupting my play and also my internet connection causes too many freezes. I do believe as do many others though that Wolf Video Poker does simulate very closely real random results. I don't have Bob's program, but if I did, I would give it some trials too. I'm sure the results would mirror those in Wolf. I think one can tell from my posts over the years and pics that Florida Phil has posted for me that what I posted above about the short and long windows is really happening to me. It is happening to many other video poker players as well. By the way, I still think we are a dying breed. No pun intended and let's hope I'm completely wrong about that.

Gronbog
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Post by Gronbog »

The title of the thread says it all. If you think it's rigged, then don't play.

Webman
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Post by Webman »

All games offered in legitimate casinos undergo enormous scrutiny to ensure they are not rigged.

Should a rigged machine ever be discovered, the casino operating it would put their gaming license at risk and risk losing it, their business and more. The cost far exceeds any relatively minute gain from offering a rigged machine.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

This post is directed only at webman's post and no other post made in this thread:

webman - post of the day.

edog743
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Post by edog743 »

This post is also devoted solely to Webman you say any and all V.P. in a casino are legit. Can you or will you say knowing my results on this site say that all the V.P. games here are on the up and up. Think before you answer this knowing my history here.

edog743
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Post by edog743 »

To answer your question DA I do not and will not frequent a casino. As far as this site goes I am positive this site is either rigged or people have cheat programs. There is far to much winning in contests by certain people on a regular basis. Webman has confirmed these programs exist but refuses to do anything about it. Which is also one of the reasons I am the lone member of the outer sanctum.

Webman
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Post by Webman »

This post is also devoted solely to Webman you say any and all V.P. in a casino are legit. Can you or will you say knowing my results on this site say that all the V.P. games here are on the up and up. Think before you answer this knowing my history here.

Yes, I'm aware of both your results and history here. You do quite well, but anything short of qualifying for the Tournament of Champions is not acceptable to you.

Yes, I can say that the games here are fair. Cards are selected entirely at random and there isn't anything nefarious in the programming that would benefit or hurt any individual player. The games are free to play so there would also be nothing to gain by doing so. I cannot do anything to improve the flavor of your sour grapes except hope you do better in the future. And I do wish you luck.

"Webman has confirmed these programs exist but refuses to do anything about it. Which is also one of the reasons I am the lone member of the outer sanctum."

This is utterly false and I don't know where it's coming from. If people were known to be cheating we would most certainly do something about it. The rules prohibit the use of any such program and a member would be permanently removed.

You are a member of the "outer sanctum" as a joke because you constantly talked about certain people being in some sort of "inner sanctum" by which they had an advantage in contests. Also false. You will of course see some people win more than others. That is life.

markinca
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Post by markinca »

Why would a casino advertise a 99% game and 'rig' it to 97% when they could just set the paytable to a 97% payback in the first place?

And before you say that putting paytables to 97% would deter potential customers, I think we all know that the vast majority of VP players don't even look at the paytables or know the difference between different ones.

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