Not a Brand New Ball Game

Discuss all things Las Vegas. Hotels, restaurants, good deals, airfares, cabbies, conventions, shows, etc.
DaBurglar
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Not a Brand New Ball Game

Post by DaBurglar »

As the Bible says (to summarize a well known quote from King Solomon), "there is nothing new under the sun...."As Harry Truman once stated, " the only thing new in this world is the HISTORY you DON'T Know...."The Oakland Raiders relocating to LAs Vegas to become the L.V. Raiders is about one very obvious, corrupting force/thing......MONEY (and not just "normal" levels of greed, or avarice will suffice when describing what exactly is going on here with this whole deal....the NFL has totally sold out, has pawned what smidgeon of integrity and principle it still had in exchange for a massive payday that most certainly will spawn problems and corruption down the line once the iniquity of Las Vegas rubs off on both the Raiders as a team organization, as well as potentially other NFL teams who visit over the coming NFL seasons.    The temptations and lifestyle of Vegas, with its plethora of vices and its sports gambling, is beckoning.....But I'd like for some of us here at this forum to try and recall the way Las Vegas during the decades of the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s regularly flirted and toyed with professional sports teams (Hockey, Basketball, and Football mainly.....) setting up shop, but each time prudence and principle always prevailed and no (major league/professional) teams materialized in Sin City.  There were always discussions about the potential pitfalls and dangers and drawbacks......What happened to all those concerns?  Can we just finally admit what I already alluded to, mainly that over time, peoples' moral tolerance and concern simply erode in the face of relentless arguments in favor of HUGE profits ..... a type of cognitive dissonance overtakes everyone involved, combined with the dynamic force of one MAIN, primary financial power (i.e. Mr Adelson in this case and his HUUUGE investment-holding company with its many backers and partners) pushes to make the deal a reality......and BOOM (as John Madden would exclaim.)Let us now have a type of prognostication exercise:What will the very first MAJOR scandal involving the NFL, The Raiders and/or Las Vegas actually center around, or actually involve?A) Some sort of "gambling" involving NFL players, whether it be major or minor actual infractions....someone will inadvertently "bet" on something they have no business betting, or it could be something as awful as some dumb, sociopathic primadonna  rookie or 2nd year disgruntled player intentionally taking bribes to influence outcomes!  Don't ever say that "it'll never happen.....!"B)  Some sort of Substance Use/Abuse scandal involving the Raiders and the many shady, questionable "Sports Nutrition & Research" companies which are based in and around Las Vegas and Southern Nevada.   The low Taxes, lax Regulations and proximity to Mexico make Vegas a popular spot for "substances" that exist in the legal and medical twilight zone (like the numerous "banned" nutrients players like Mark McGwire, Dennis Rodman and a slew of other athletes used to consume.)C)  Some sort of Sex Scandal involving Las Vegas' REAL bread & Butter, Strippers and Prostitutes......how long before some Raiders (or perhaps some VISITING Team) is thrown out of a Strip JOINT at 4:30 A.M. either the morning OF, or AFTER, a Big Game, whereby the player(s) involved allegedly hit or otherwise harmed one of the "girls", who immediately retains a high profile Los Angeles Attorney and then presses charges (in that order)??????    Or maybe it will be something a little more intimate but just as sordid, like a Raider Rookie, being a naive youngster, is entrapped by a slick, savvy Vegas "entertainer" who claims she is carrying his love child, and demands he start PARTING with PLENTY PESOS, Por favor, PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENTS Pending .....What say the rest of you?


Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

Um, EVERY professional football team that moved was due to, drum roll Please ------- MONEY. Starting with the Decatur Staleys to most recently the Oakland Raiders moving to Las Vegas.

As for "Sports Nutrition & Research" companies your line of thinking here is flawed. Many of these products fly under the FDA radar because they are not regulated by the FDA and their use is not solely limited to the NFL. Plus show me where Dennis Rodman was ever suspended or otherwise punished by the NBA for taking a banned "Sports Nutrition" substance?

As for players in strip joints and because you mentioned the Raiders I'll use them as an example: you should read up on the exploits of the 1970's Raiders and specifically John Matuszak. Back in the day the team had a day off from practice during the week and they were known to tear up the bay area the night before their day off.

As for betting? Geez.....

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »

OK, in an extremely roundabout, oblique way, TED chose to essentially say that the fact the NFL chose to ignore 50+ years of avoiding putting professional sports in Las Vegas by finally agreeing to allow a NFL team in vegas is......NO BIG DEAL.   His view seems to be its no different than any other city ..... that the potential problems are just normal course of business events.We'll see.......in the meantime, what do the rest of you say?  ANy raider fans out there pissed off that Oakland just got the shaft yet again?

MT1716
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Post by MT1716 »

Related question: " Will the Vegas books still take wagers on the Raiders after they have made the move?"

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

I haven't heard a good explanation for why this would potentially be a problem. Just because they are the "home team?" Why is it more of a concern with a team based in Vegas vs somewhere else in the country? It seems to be a problem only of perception, but I would love to be better informed if people have thoughts on the matter.The ABC reasons listed in Burglar's post don't seem to be reason enough to me. Players are already exposed to these things and are able to make their way to Vegas (or pick up the phone) just fine. Would it be a higher risk environment for players who lack discipline? Sure. But that doesn't cover why it would be concerning that wagers be allowed for the Raiders. Is it a question of team ownership?

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

DaBurglar I don't have a problem at all with professional sports teams locating in Las Vegas and the "issues" that you feel will corrupt players are all in your mind. As others have mentioned; these "issues" you mention do happen in every other city that has professional sports teams located in/near them.

Edited to add:I believe Mr. Adelson has backed out of participating in this deal. And; no retort on Dennis Rodman?

Casino Knight
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Post by Casino Knight »

Would you believe that the Raiders are the only team to go three years without an arrest?

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »




DaBurglar I don't have a problem at all with professional sports teams locating in Las Vegas and the "issues" that you feel will corrupt players are all in your mind. As others have mentioned; these "issues" you mention do happen in every other city that has professional sports teams located in/near them.

Edited to add:I believe Mr. Adelson has backed out of participating in this deal. And; no retort on Dennis Rodman?.....MY WHOLE POINT was that, for upwards of 5-6 DECADES, professional sports (all SPORTS, not just NFL)  steered way clear of Vegas, for numerous reasons (all of which were and are legitimate concerns and which, STILL exist today.)   Yet, in very short order and time, we now have NFL football in Vegas, and the Raiders no less.     I listed three "HYPOTHETICAL", make believe "Scandals" that I half jokingly put forth as potential issues going forward......They were based in part on already existing circumstances. like the fact Vegas IS full of vices, and that VEGAS Is NOT the same as "every other city" in America.    That is the dumbest logic I have seen in at least a week....that's like saying "people get killed in their Bedrooms, and People get killed on the streets of Chicago, THEREFORE People are just as at risk in their bedrooms as they are in Chicago's  streets!"    Those three make believe hypothetical scandals I mentioned are FAR FAR FAR more likely to happen in Vegas than, say, Green Bay or Buffalo!    To suggest otherwise is the emptiest form of argument.....and just plain dumb.       WHICH brings me back to my original point......The NFL, and Vegas, clearly have allowed the short term promise of MONEY to totally short circuit the responsibility and moral obligation to try and keep the risks to the game, and its players, as small as possible.Vegas is NOT the same as any other city......get real.   The attention, the SCALE & size of things, the scrutiny and all that MONEY makes this an entirely different situation than the NFL going to a city like Jacksonville or Phoenix (AZ)......the media will pounce the first sign of trouble, and the NFL will have yet another public relations nightmare.


Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

DaBuglar with regard to your post: Las Vegas is EXACTLY the same as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans.

Who REALLY CARES if "the media will pounce the first sign of trouble, and the NFL will have yet another public relations nightmare"?

As for Green Bay you apparently completely forgot about Brett Favre and his substance abuse issues?

As for Chicago, YES, people ARE NOT any safer in their own bedrooms than they are in the streets.

Have you ever given any thought to the notion that maybe owners of professional sports teams just felt that Las Vegas didn't have the base population until now to support a professional sports team?

Excuse me while I go blend up a nice whey protein shake.

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »



DaBuglar with regard to your post: Las Vegas is EXACTLY the same as Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, and New Orleans.

Who REALLY CARES if "the media will pounce the first sign of trouble, and the NFL will have yet another public relations nightmare"?

As for Green Bay you apparently completely forgot about Brett Favre and his substance abuse issues?

As for Chicago, YES, people ARE NOT any safer in their own bedrooms than they are in the streets.

Have you ever given any thought to the notion that maybe owners of professional sports teams just felt that Las Vegas didn't have the base population until now to support a professional sports team?

Excuse me while I go blend up a nice whey protein shake.The rest of your post is obviously just psychobabble where you are just typing the first thing that comes into your head in response......especiaLly  "Las Vegas is the same as <insert any city name here>"......absurd.But this portion is actually relevant, even though its 100% incorrect:"Have you ever given any thought to the notion that maybe owners
of professional sports teams just felt that Las Vegas didn't have the
base population until now to support a professional sports team?"As far back as 1996, when Vegas Population reached nearly 1 Million, the city was already well qualified to "support" a professional team in numerous sports......when you consider again the populations of GreenBay, Buffalo and numerous other cities which are well below 1 million (or barely there), and when you realize that these cities have been supporting teams for decades dating back to when the populations were even more scant, this argument does not hold water.......or gatorade for that matter.      giggle giggle snort snort

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