Guilty- Lose the Evidence

[JIMDUECE`SWILD]

Trying to hide something? ? ? ?
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/comm ... 03286.html

[doris13]

well i didn't break the bank in AC but at least i only lost $300 over 2 days.to me that is winning. 

[Frank Kneeland]

well i didn't break the bank in AC but at least i only lost $300 over 2 days.to me that is winning. I see comments like this often and I'm never sure how to quantify them. It is possible to play with an edge and make money overall in casinos. Losing a little is not wining and if you think it is your expectations are too low or worse it may be the sign of something more serious.It is worth noting that your actual results during a single trip are too subject to random fluctuation to be meaningful. Were you playing with an edge? If so, you should be happy with your trip regardless of whether or not you won or lost.If you weren't playing with an edge, you should be dissatisfied with yourself, because you could have done better.Morphing a losing experience into something favorable is a side effect of something called the opponent process model and a key player in the development of gambling addiction.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opponent-p ... theoryAlso see the book Best Possible Odds by William McCown for a more detailed explanation on how the opponent process model directly applies to gambling specifically. It goes into the method by which people become acustomed to losses as a favorable end. It is primarily a physiological phenomenon.  Hormones are involved.Thinking losses are OK is also a possible side effect of cognitive dissonance, another player in gambling addiction though a more pure psychological effect. Ego is the driving force here, and a desire to justify one's actions. If given a choice between admitting that we did something unfavorable, or inflating the value of the experience, a lot of people choose the happy fantasy where we got VALUE for our time.Please be careful you aren't falling pray to these slippery slopes.You may simply be a recreational gambler without issue, but on the off chance you aren't, I thought it best to at least mention all this. Problem gambling only effects a small percentage of all the people that gamble, it is for that small percentage that I wrote this post.~FKP.S. To the other posters out there. If you intend to add comments on this subject I suggest you read some of the pertinent information on the subject first. This is a serious topic with dire consequences...or at least it has been portrayed as such in all the books on gambling addiction I have read. None of this is my opinion. It's a regurgitation of three years of research I had to do for my book.

[doris13]

frank,i went with $1500 for a 2 night stay.i came home with $1200.i am a very happy camper.

[backsider]

frank,i went with $1500 for a 2 night stay.i came home with $1200.i am a very happy camper.
 I second that. Many times I've been down a thou and just before leaving I won maybe $800. THAT makes me happy and i check my trip off as successful. Frank, seriously, where did you get this quote from? (you did say none of these were yours) Were you playing with an edge? If so, you should be happy with your trip regardless of whether or not you won or lost. if I go to a casino for a weekend and play fpdw at the Palms, and I come home losing $350, what can possibly make me happy about that? i played with that edge they give you, but so what? I, like probably every gambler out there, wants to win and if we don't, what game we were playing ends up as irrelevant. Wouldn't you agree with that concept?

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank, seriously, where did you get this quote from? (you did say none of these were yours) Were you playing with an edge? If so, you should be happy with your trip regardless of whether or not you won or lost.I did not mean to imply that the entire post was a direct quote, only a
paraphrase of what I've read on cognitive dissonance and the opponent
process model. Have you ignored my suggestion that you read up on the subject before replying? if I go to a casino for a weekend and play fpdw at the Palms, and I come home losing $350, what can possibly make me happy about that? i played with that edge they give you, but so what? I, like probably every gambler out there, wants to win and if we don't, what game we were playing ends up as irrelevant. Wouldn't you agree with that concept? No, I most assuredly would not. In most aspects of life and gambling in particular one should favor effort over result. Because effort is totally within your control, result is not. At least not daily results.Have you heard the expression, "it is not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game". Well this is far from a silly old wives tale. It's the best advice you'll ever hear on how to reconcile your casino performance.From my previous post exchanges with you it is clear that your mind thinks too differently from mine for you to understand most of what I say. So I will simply close with this and hope for the best.Much of what you say and by inference what I think you think, is completely divergent from the POV of professionals that have been doing this for a living for 20+ years.One of us may be wrong.Good luck out there. You know I wish you well. I just don't know how to upload what's in my head to yours. I would if I could.~FKIncidentally: Doing exactly what the pros do, gives you the best chance of winning. Pros win over time but still have daily loses. The difference between us is we don't care about the day to day. If you were up $1,000,000 in casinos over your life, would you care about a single day where you lost $2,500? I think not.

[edog743]

Backsider, I think you got scalped!!!!

[Frank Kneeland]

Backsider, I think you got scalped!!!! No scalping was intended. I more than most understand how difficult it is for folks to understand randomness, probability and all its related dynamics.It is nearly impossible! We are hard-wired not to understand it.I can't remember if I recommended listing to this here or on vpFREE, but in any event listen to this show on Stochasticity:http://www.radiolab.org/2009/jun/15/Seriously, it's the best thing I've ever heard on the subject, and the most useful hour of your life you may spend in the near future.Get back to me after you've heard the whole thing. Pay especially close attention to the part with the Parkinson sufferer and the coin flip trials. ~FK

[BOOPSAHOY]

"a lot of people choose the happy fantasy where we got VALUE for our time."
 
I think for someone that is not a proffesional gambler this is important. I can go to a show in the city and out to eat at a really nice restaurant for $300 and I am happy with the value of my nightout. So why cant I be happy if I go to the casino and get a free room, free meals, free drinks, and entertaining games and lose $300 and feel happy with the value of my trip? Why is that a fantasy? Remember Im speaking of people that gamble for entertainment. Just curious.

[Frank Kneeland]

"a lot of people choose the happy fantasy where we got VALUE for our time."
 
I think for someone that is not a proffesional gambler this is important. I can go to a show in the city and out to eat at a really nice restaurant for $300 and I am happy with the value of my nightout. So why cant I be happy if I go to the casino and get a free room, free meals, free drinks, and entertaining games and lose $300 and feel happy with the value of my trip? Why is that a fantasy? Remember Im speaking of people that gamble for entertainment. Just curious.None of what you said has any bearing on the concept of cognitive dissonance, which is an artificial inflation of an event or action's worth in our minds as a direct result of how difficult or unpleasant it was to accomplish. I guess no one is taking my advice on reading up on the subject before making replies.What you are talking about is not "cognitive dissonance" and I take no issue with what you said. That was not however what I was talking about.An example of true cognitive dissonance is when people rate night clubs as better, because the lines are longer, the drinks more expensive, and the music too loud. There have been some really interesting scientific studies done on this, please read them before commenting. You only think I'm disagreeing with you because you haven't done your due diligence in study on the subject.Google "studies on cognitive dissonance" then get back to me.~FKP.S. Just for the record, I'm am not enjoying this thread more because of how difficult it is to be understood.