Video Poker Forum

Having read and reviewed the NV gaming laws and having spoken to Shadowman
I'm convinced that the RNG is indeed what it claims to be.  However, living
close to Oklahoma where there are Indian Casino's I'm wondering if anyone knows
if the same laws apply there.  We have a newer casino called Downstream just
west of Joplin Mo.  It's a nice clean place and all the machines are IGT.  The
payouts are  9/6 and almost all the VP machines, of which there aren't a lot,
are progressive.  I spent 6 hours there this past week, which was my third visit
to the place,  and even though I hit quad A's 3 times on one machine, no machine
got me over $300.   So I spent about 45 min. just looking over peoples shoulders
to see if anyone was haaving more luck that I was .  Nope!!!  Most people were
thrilled to just get a quad and no one had over $150 on their machine.  Also it
was fairly easy to keep track of what people were doing as the machines were
grouped together...Granted at some pt. someone will hit the royal for the
progressive but it seemed no one was getting any smaller wins.  Somewhat like
slot playing...I did notice that most the patrons were retired and were putting
in $20 at a time.  I know in Vegas it's difficult to tell what a machine is
doing because  people will put in a lot more to begin playing...
SO is it possible that the machines in Oklahoma are indeed programmed and
not controlled by the RNG.  Obviously the technology is there to program the
machines.  I couldn't find any sites that told of any regulations in Ok.  The
Downstream is owned by the Quapaw tribe.  If I really thought it was Random I'd
go back but as is I'm not willing to throw money away if the machines are
programmed....
I need facts not just speculation...  http://www.downstreamcasino.com/home.php 
so some of you high tech. guys help me out

Any machine manufactured in NV must meet NV Gaming regulations regardless of where they are used.
I suggest that the paytable changes, inorder to support the progressive meter, are the issue.

I looked around a little and can see that OK allows both class II and class III indian gaming. Class II gaming means the games need not be fair, that is, not all cards have equal opportunites. In many cases these games are controlled by a central server that determines the results. This is still controlled through an RNG, however, the ER is not based on the paytable.
 
The next time you go to the casino you should ask what type of gaming is provided. Based on your description it would not surprise me that this is class II.

So Shadowman does that mean that Faygo is incorrect in what he wrote?  What are class III machines and can the IGT machines be class II...Also what did you mean by the ER.  I assume that is not the Emergency Room after you loose.....One more question...If the machines are class II as you suggest does that imply that the workings of the machine are totally different than the NV machines.  Would IGT put their name on something that is not fair???

IGT makes both.

https://www.igt.com/GamingGroup/Games/b ... ?pid=5.170

These are also known as Bingo machines. Ask which they have, they are probably required to tell you. I would be surprised if it's not noted somewhere on the machines themselves, although I do not know what to look for exactly.

I don't think it's accurate to say these machines aren't "fair." They likely behave exactly as they are supposed to. You just need to be aware of what kind of machines you are playing to know how they are programmed to perform. If you are playing "bingo" that looks like video poker, you can still win or lose. It's just not in the same way.

Scratch tickets are perfectly "fair" but you may not have a chance of winning the grand prize when you buy one from a certain store.

Similar with bingo machines... the wins are determined before you even sit down. It's just a matter of who "buys the ticket."

If they are class 2, I would not play there myself.

These are not the Bingo type machines... I've seen those in other Indian casinos.... I may try to call and fine out.  Interesting to know that IGT makes both types of machines.  That I did not know....Thanks for all the input...and the site information...I looked on the site and  the VP machines are Game Boy multi-game and look EXACTLY like Vegas machines,  so inless the insides are different they would not be Class II.  Correct????

  I looked on the site and  the VP machines are Game Boy multi-game and look EXACTLY like Vegas machines,  so inless the insides are different they would not be Class II.  Correct????

Mostly true yes. Did you mean "game king" or "game maker"? IGT machines are red in nature and the bally's are black cased with green masking. Usually, upper right or left corner, there is a small bingo card there. Tell tale sign. The Injun casinos here in Ca. weren't bound to federal gaming laws applying to fairness of the game etc. but have voluntarily agreed to have their games inspected and regulated thus games here are up to snuff with their Nv. counterparts. Check and see if the Ok. indian casinos are bound by any agreement in terms of gaming regulations and fairness. 

I know MikeA has said he's played in OK on occasion. Maybe next time he's on he will chime in here. He might only play blackjack there though.

From here:http://www.downstreamcasino.com/pdf/Dow ... .pdf"2,000 popular slot machines; includes (200) Class II and (1,800) Class III games"

Yep webman I found the same site....Guess I should do my own research and not be so lazy.....which means that I might play there again at some pt.   assuming the VP is not the class II, which I don't think is the case... The resort
opened to the public on July 4, 2008, and includes 1,800 Class III
slots machines, 224 Class II slot machines, 30 table games, a 14-table
poker room, and 4,700 square feet of meeting space, as well as various
food and beverage amenities. In addition, a 222-room hotel at the
resort opened on Nov. 1, 2008. The Authority does not publicly disclose
its financial information. Operating results