New machines unplayable.

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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davidearl
Senior Member
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:38 pm

Re: New machines unplayable.

Post by davidearl »

Free Michigan!

davidearl
Senior Member
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:38 pm

Post by davidearl »

I went back 1 year from March 16, this year. So from March 17th 2019 to March 16th, this is my results from both Saganing and Soaring Eagle. I don't know how many hands. but about 40,000 tier points every 6 months. So a gold card. I retired my business Labor Day weekend and have been ramping up my play since. I'll list my free play and amount won or lost by Month.

3-17-2019 to 4-16 Saganing Free ply win/lose Soaring Eagle Free Play Win/lose
7 visits $135 +$576.55 3 visits $152 -$25.50
4-17 to 5-16 4 $51 +$26.75 1 $20 +$12.50
5-17 to 6-16 2 $40 +$44 3 $67 +$47.50
6-17 to 7-16 5 $70 -$71.75 2 $28 +$20.50
7-17 to 8-16 3 $70 +$83.50 2 $41 +$7.25
8-17 to 9-16 8 $135 +$93.25 4 $101 +$86.00
9-17 to 10-16 9 $185 +$248 3 $77 +$249.25
10-17 to 11-16 10 $245 +$1002.03 4 $85 +$123.10
11-17 to 12-16 9 $255 +$183.75 4 $91 +92.15
12-17 to 1-16-20 10 $381 +$299.75 8 $141 +$87.50
1-17 to 2-16 6 $185 +$28.25 4 $70 +$270.00
2-17 to 3-16 8 $315 +$420.75 6 $205 -$326.65

Totals 81 visits $2067 +2934.83 44 visits $1078 +$643.60

I played the old Game Kings that are now in the non-smoking room at Saganing and the GameMakers when the Kings were busy. JOB 5c to $1 and sometimes $1 TDB. 99.54% & 99.58%.
At the Eagle I played mostly 99.96% SDB, when not busy. When busy I played GameMaker JOB 99.54% or the Game Kings in the non-smoking. Looks like the old 99.54% were much better than the 99.96%, or luckier. Not nearly enough play to say for sure.

applepear86
Senior Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Post by applepear86 »

I by and large don't believe they f*** with the randomness of the machines, however, I will say it's not a stupid question to ask given that Soaring Eagle is a tribal property on an indian reservation, which is sovereign from the United States for the most part. They are regulated by the Indian Gaming Commission, which basically can mean self regulated if they have enough pull inside whatever the hell that is lol.

Is it possible they could hire a blackhat IT guy to come in and mess with IGT's proprietary software in the new machines? Sure. But you have to ask, in this day and age, would they want to risk being blacklisted or sued by IGT for doing so for the purpose of skimming a few extra cents out of every video poker dollar? I don't think so, but it is possible. Blackjack card counter forums have said they swear they replace face cards with 5s in the shoes at the blackjack tables, among other shenanigans. They also are known for very tight, unplayable slots, taking over 20 cents out of every dollar from what one of the workers told me. I never touch a slot machine in that place at all when I go.

Whenever I play there, the video poker seems pretty random. I have had good and bad luck streaks on both the newer machines at the main casino, and the old game kings across the street in slot palace.

FAA
Video Poker Master
Posts: 8465
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am

Post by FAA »

I’ve had recent experience with a wipe out session. I think a good way to keep track of dud hands is the phone. Hit the number one in the Notes app per whiff. If you see a fence post pattern after a minute, get the hell out of there.

applepear86
Senior Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:06 am

Post by applepear86 »

FAA wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:38 pm
I’ve had recent experience with a wipe out session. I think a good way to keep track of dud hands is the phone. Hit the number one in the Notes app per whiff. If you see a fence post pattern after a minute, get the hell out of there.
That's weirdly exactly what I do. But I do it to keep track of if my luck is hot vs cold, not to see if the casino is cheating. If I'm cold I "waste" my hands at the lowest denom possible at one coin. I still play proper strategy, but since my luck is so bad, I am only betting a nickel and don't really care if I'm losing 5 cents per hand on a very cold streak. The bad luck can follow you around from machine to machine or casino to casino, so I find it best to just shake it out and play lol. However, this strategy kind of sucks for games with huge rare payoffs like double double bonus and such. Those quads can sneak in the middle of cold streaks and it really messes up your performance if you're constantly getting them in your low bets and not your bigger ones. I mainly use this strategy like a charm for JOB, Bonus poker, or sometimes deuces wild. (I understand this is gambler's fallacy, and I'm sure some mathematician from Stanford or somewhere could map out how this is wrong and when it falls apart, but it works for me so that's how I play.)

I don't believe any casino in the US has the incentive to cheat on video poker, because it's too easily measurable and noticeable. They'd be lucky to take an extra 2 cents out of every dollar. However, I could see them "possibly" doing so on slots on a shady indian reservation, whether going past the legal advantage they're allowed to have in the state, or hiring a hacker to fool with the software to make a kill switch of sorts for a big jackpot to not happen. You'd easily be able to hide a 40 or 50 percent house edge in a slot machine, just because it's so complicated to measure the odds and whether or not you're just having bad variance.

FAA
Video Poker Master
Posts: 8465
Joined: Wed May 28, 2014 11:58 am

Post by FAA »

The quarter JOB progressives here seem to trigger a huge dud streak RIGHT AFTER $25 coin in, usually free play. So, unfortunately I’ve determined that the best strategy is to simply move.

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