New machines unplayable.

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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stevel96a1
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Re: New machines unplayable.

Post by stevel96a1 »

"machines at the end of the row" or in the non-smoking section, or whatever else.

i have actually made mental notes of that too this includes slot machine machines as well as poker machines, i remember i sat in the middle and the guy to the left of me end cap machine got his good hand my wife to the right got her good hand but me lost all, could have just been bad luck, selective memory does dominate our choices and other out-comes , i guess the ones at the end are played alot and the machines in the middle dont get much action

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

I'm pretty sure it's actually related to a person's underwear color. If you could get us some data points by asking winners what they are wearing, we can all start winning more.

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

I don't mean to take away from the original intent of this topic. I'd love to see an actual study of new vs old machines if anyone here is willing to put in the work. "Feelings" aren't enough for me to be concerned, based on the simulations I ran and the fact that everything people have mentioned can clearly be expected from time to time on perfectly fair machines.

stevel96a1
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Post by stevel96a1 »

The old model from new model machines are running off the exact RNG? I highly doubt it, i would not bet my life on it. The only people who this andwer for certain would be the ones who written the software. again the hpsand downs and how the cards fall out of the machine is too much. I played 8 hours 44Dw and first 4 hours i lost and i got my money back after the next 4hours the deuces were just falling out of the machine. I dont think id get the same rng treatment from the newer rng model.

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

Okay, so newer machines deal fewer deuces? That's measurable. Go for it!

wildman49
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Post by wildman49 »

Eduardo wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:56 am
"Feelings" aren't enough for me to be concerned,
For players like you that only play on Vacation, you don't get it. Play 40k to50k hands a month and you see it first hand. I got to chat with my buddy form Detroit Saturday. He tells me hes not having fun any more. I did chat with Tech58 both Saturday and Sunday, things have not changed. I never seen Tech play less then $2 level but Sunday he was at the .50 level.

I for one have swore off the NEW machines. I have 5 months on them and if I take out the BALLY machine (not IGT) 4k royal and the $4400 rolling pot win (on bar top), I would be down 8k since July1 playing these NEW machines.

I don't need simulations since I have real play and other players to back me up. SOMETHING HAS CHANGED where we play. I can't put my finger on what it is other then NEW RNG technology.I had to changed my play and machines. It's not royals, I have had 4 on these new machines, its the 5 cards off the draw, more dud starting 5 then them older machines they took out. There just garbage hands between the royals. Can this happen yes. I have to many people that played both old (taken out) machines and theses new ones and hands down there is a difference in play.

I found some older up right machines at the bingo hall, them play well. Changed my game to 1 bar top of 5 we have and much better play on NSUD. Still down but not getting wiped out.
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Hit Ducks 3 times in three trips same bar top. Going to stick to what works.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Eduardo wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:56 am
I don't mean to take away from the original intent of this topic. I'd love to see an actual study of new vs old machines if anyone here is willing to put in the work. "Feelings" aren't enough for me to be concerned, based on the simulations I ran and the fact that everything people have mentioned can clearly be expected from time to time on perfectly fair machines.
Thank you Eduardo, sincerely, for your perfectly valid points. Your sims. are very impressive but may i ask the apx. age of your program and it's RNG?
MY understanding is the most recent change in RNG methodology was in 2016 from 5&5 to 5 then draw later. The newer machines and recently reprogrammed ones "seem to be different", "feel different", "game flows different","streaky" of course all very subjective observations.
None of us are capable of testing the true randomness of the machines we play but regulators are.
Nevada routinely runs unannounced checks of machines and other games.
My only dog in this fight has been to try to find who verifies the legality of the machines i play!
I have been unsuccessful at the casino level and have no response from the IGRC.
I have never once complained about losses, or suspected rigged machines!
If the new RNG method is still truly random then someone should be able to demonstrate that on machines that we play.

stevel96a1
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Post by stevel96a1 »

Nice hits Wildman, getting delt the 4 2's is the best, your experience with that same machine i play on is the same as mine, the deuces just kept falling out of the machine right? thats how VP should be played, i would not dare try these moves on the newer model type of game.

on a side note im a creature of habbit , i play my chess games on chess.com can never surpass 1600 rating, and i play like a boxing ring player after player they all feel like one, sometimes my moves work sometimes they don't, i play battlefield 2 and can hardly ever surpass a 2-1 ratio (2kills-1death) and the longer i play the first person shooter it stretches out to 20-10, 40-2, etc again no matter how hard i try can never be number 1# because im set in my ways well video poker is no different i played the newer machines buck heads up against my bankroll and that thing devours my bankroll while the older machine gives me that fighting chance ending a winner or having a longer bankroll lifespan

wildman49
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Post by wildman49 »

stevel96a1 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:08 am
the newer machines buck heads up against my bankroll and that thing devours my bankroll while the older machine gives me that fighting chance ending a winner or having a longer bankroll lifespan
Yes totally agree. It's just time to pass them by. What is happening to me is I now have much less machines to play. I think at some point what I am playing now will get upgraded to the newer technology.
Then it might be time to give up VP as we know it here. I only have 2 casino's less then an hour drive. Once they have newer RNG machines put in will be a sad day.

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

tech58 wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 5:06 pm
Eduardo wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:56 am
I don't mean to take away from the original intent of this topic. I'd love to see an actual study of new vs old machines if anyone here is willing to put in the work. "Feelings" aren't enough for me to be concerned, based on the simulations I ran and the fact that everything people have mentioned can clearly be expected from time to time on perfectly fair machines.
Thank you Eduardo, sincerely, for your perfectly valid points. Your sims. are very impressive but may i ask the apx. age of your program and it's RNG?
MY understanding is the most recent change in RNG methodology was in 2016 from 5&5 to 5 then draw later. The newer machines and recently reprogrammed ones "seem to be different", "feel different", "game flows different","streaky" of course all very subjective observations.
None of us are capable of testing the true randomness of the machines we play but regulators are.
Nevada routinely runs unannounced checks of machines and other games.
My only dog in this fight has been to try to find who verifies the legality of the machines i play!
I have been unsuccessful at the casino level and have no response from the IGRC.
I have never once complained about losses, or suspected rigged machines!
If the new RNG method is still truly random then someone should be able to demonstrate that on machines that we play.
No.

he law was changed in Nevada in 2016 to mandate continuous shuffling of cards while waiting for you to hold your cards. Most other states don't even have the law. But it's been done that way in actual PRACTICE for a LONG time, probably for over 20 years now. Basically, all the machines you long for have the same RNG setup.

Mathematically speaking, (assuming a fairly programmed game), it makes no difference what method of drawing is used. But it's a far superior method for game protection. If the player had the ability to know the draw cards ahead of time for free, they would have a significant edge.

I often assume a few things when people make this complaint.

1) They were lucky to start the game, got hooked, and now aren't as lucky.

2) Paytables have decreased on the games they play over time, and they underestimate the effect poor paytables have on your long term results. For example, $100k coin-in at 9/6 DDB is expected to lose $1020 before mistakes, and $3210 at 8/5 DDB. That's over 3 times as much!

3) And least likely, imo, nationwide conspiracy between IGT and casinos and the games are not programmed according to the law.

As for me, my luck in the last 4 years has been much better than the first 13.

Number of royals on "old" vs. "new" machines for me...

Old: 3
New: 7

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