Won/Loss Statement

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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OTABILL
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Re: Won/Loss Statement

Post by OTABILL »

nice going Ted.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

Way to go Ted!

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

Very nice!

My issue with hands pays are two fold. First, it's the cost of hitting one. Ted is probably one of the players who claims to make money playing VP, so this doesn't apply to him. For us mere mortals, it does. Second, I do not wish to increase my taxes. Each hand pay adds to my taxable income which may put me in a higher tax bracket. If I lived in the Northeast, I would pay State tax as well.

I worked and saved all my life so I could enjoy my retirement. That doesn't mean I enjoy throwing my money away. My son doesn't need my money. He still owns the business I started in 1969. When I'm gone, I want people to remember me for providing jobs, giving talented people opportunity and being generous. I could care less if they remember me for being a great gambler.

Carcounter
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Post by Carcounter »

Nice work Ted. I keep detailed records and was a little positive for 2019.

onemoretry
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Post by onemoretry »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 4:24 am

Ted is probably one of the players who claims to make money playing VP, so this doesn't apply to him. For us mere mortals, it does.
You just can't resist making the occasional snide shot, can you?

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

I just HATE it when my cape bunches up in my underwear.......

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

onemoretry wrote:
Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:55 am
You just can't resist making the occasional snide shot, can you?
No snide shot intended. This forum often fails to point out the obvious. If you can find a video poker game with a 1% player edge, we are told this is a playable game. When you receive a W2-G, it wipes out many times that advantage in taxes.

Full pay games are being replaced. The best games are now in the bigger denominations. What does this mean to the average player? Nothing. They continue to play like they have an advantage when they don't and are being taxed on top of it.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

FP, as I have posted elsewhere, getting a hand pay does not always equate with getting a W2-G. Where we used to play, any VP jackpot generated a hand pay. For 4 deuces on a single line quarter DDB machine, the payout could be $110.00 or less. Progressive Royals from $1000 - $1199 were hand pays without W2-Gs. So your 2 reasons are not always applicable. My problem with them was the custom to tip the employee bringing you the money which we always honored. Not having played those progressives in many years, I don't know if those machines are still there and/or if newer ones have eliminated noon-W2-G hand pays.

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

Let's assume you have two single line video poker machines side by side. Both with the exact same game. Both are positive including comps. The first machine is in quarters. The second machine is $5 a coin. Which is the better game?

Obviously, the $5 machine will earn more comps. The $5 player will receive numerous W2-Gs. The quarter player will never receive one. The $5 player is in the 24% tax bracket. With the W2-Gs, his tax is rate is now 32%. This applies not only to his casino wins, it applies to his entire net income.

Wouldn't it be more "intelligent" to play quarters? Perhaps not? The $5 player could itemize his returns, offset his/her losses and be subject to audit. If he/she managed to make a profit, he/she may still pay more tax. In addition, losses do not roll over year to year. Since you can't offset more losses than wins, you lose again.

Players read about successful professionals. They want to be like them. They play bigger because their heroes say they do. Unfortunately, most players don't have the same advantage, skills, tolerance or bankroll. There is no "intelligent" reason to play bigger games just so you can lose more or pay more in taxes.

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

Not sure about your overall point, but a couple minor corrections:
FloridaPhil wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:20 am
Obviously, the $5 machine will earn more comps.
I think comps are based more on coin-in than denom. I could be wrong. But if you had the same daily bankroll and played the same amount of coin-in, I'm not sure you would earn more comps on the $5 machine. More importantly, on days where you lost your entire daily bankroll, you'd probably earn more comps on the quarter machine because you would likely get a lot more coin-in with the lower volatility. You might play several hours on quarters, whereas you could go broke very quickly on a $5 machine.
FloridaPhil wrote:
Tue Mar 10, 2020 7:20 am
The $5 player is in the 24% tax bracket. With the W2-Gs, his tax is rate is now 32%. This applies not only to his casino wins, it applies to his entire net income.
Actually, in a progressive tax system like we have the higher tax rate of 32% would only be on earnings above the 24% tax bracket range.

You do not pay your "tax bracket" rate on all of your income. You pay the lowest tax rate on your first income, then higher rates on the remainder as you step up into each new bracket. This is why a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that if they earn just over the limit for a tax bracket, they are suddenly going to owe a lot more taxes. If you are $1 into the 32% bracket, you are only paying 32% on that 1 dollar.

Where it CAN make a big difference is in deductions you might receive or plans that have a firm cut-off dollar amount. For instance, you might not qualify to make ROTH contributions even if you are only $1 over the max. There are similar state level deductions that could be impacted, such as property tax forgiveness for people with a low net income and for people who live in housing with low income requirements, your gross income can make a big difference, depending on how the state or organization calculates it. Anyone in these situations should find out such details before doing anything that might increase their income with no net gain.

I'm guessing there could be consequences with regard to social security income requirements too, but I'm not sure.

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