Something to Think About

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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FloridaPhil
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Re: Something to Think About

Post by FloridaPhil »

What I think we need is more discussion about playing games the majority of us play. I assume all the regulars on this forum take the expert's advice and never play negative games? If they do, it's because their comps are great enough to make them positive? They can't be playing much VP these days.

Playing negative games is about setting limits. VP limits are not only money, they include time as well. There are hundreds of discussions we could have that would help players of all persuasions get more for their money, even those who don't have access to potentially profitable games.

Look at the Strategy Forum, it's practically dead. The last post was April 9th. Why is this? Because everyone has heard the same old stuff for the last twenty years. If you are playing video poker now, you are playing on this website for free where the ER is zero. At least we're not losing money.

seemoreroyals
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Post by seemoreroyals »

FP, playing negative return games is just like playing positive return games. Unfortunately it is the reality for most of us unless you want to get on a plane after Vegas opens back up and venture out to one of the off strip casinos.

You still scout out the best paytables you can find at the casino or casinos you will be playing at. You practice against those paytables as practice helps limit mistakes. You still have to decide what promotions the casino or casinos you play at are offering and which offer or offer makes the most sense for you. You still have to exercise money management. Everything is still the same except because of the loss of a quarter or a dollar here and there (one less credit on a flush or a full house) you are going to get a few less chances for getting a royal or a nice run of 4oak's that will put money in your pocket for a particular session.

To try to change this reality is pointless. Just accept it or find a different casino game to play that you think you have a better chance to come out ahead on. Or learn ult x vulturing if you are determined to play at an advantage. Or quit going to the casino all together. Or quit going to your local and only fly into destinations where you can find positive paytables. Those my friend are your options.

New2vp
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Post by New2vp »

New2vp wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 4:55 pm
Points will likely not be directly addressed ...
How could this have possibly been predicted? ;)
FloridaPhil wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:11 am
What I think we need is more discussion about playing games the majority of us play ...

There are hundreds of discussions we could have that would help players of all persuasions get more for their money, even those who don't have access to potentially profitable games.
In the previous post there were hundreds of questions. Now there are hundreds of discussions. Is that the same as the same discussion hundreds of times?
FloridaPhil wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 5:11 am
Look at the Strategy Forum, it's practically dead. The last post was April 9th. Why is this? Because everyone has heard the same old stuff for the last twenty years.
The bolded section offers an ironic hypothesis coming from you. It indicates that you don't think repetition ("same old stuff") is helpful. To regular readers of your posts, that's perhaps funny but also sort of sad since you don't get the joke.

It is nice you are concerned about the Strategy forum. You had a hand in running off people who posted there, so I presume you are proud of yourself for that.

But your posts (or I should say "post" singular, even though it is made over and over) is actually not about recreation, but about strategy for negative games, so they don't (or I should say "it doesn't") really fit in Recreational Play either.

You seem to think that if you are the original poster, the thread belongs in Recreational Play. I don't know if that is because you think there is nothing that you would ever have worthwhile adding to a Strategy Forum? Hmm ... Something to think about.

Your posts (or "post" singular) might be better suited to a new forum.

Webman, could you please add a new section called "Asked and Answered"? And autodirect FP's posts to that section? I know that occasionally ... very occasionally ... a post might not fit there. However, I imagine such software would make the correct decision considerably more often than the present procedures do.

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

seemoreroyals wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:06 am
FP, playing negative return games is just like playing positive return games. Unfortunately it is the reality for most of us unless you want to get on a plane after Vegas opens back up and venture out to one of the off strip casinos.

You still scout out the best paytables you can find at the casino or casinos you will be playing at. You practice against those paytables as practice helps limit mistakes. You still have to decide what promotions the casino or casinos you play at are offering and which offer or offer makes the most sense for you. You still have to exercise money management. Everything is still the same except because of the loss of a quarter or a dollar here and there (one less credit on a flush or a full house) you are going to get a few less chances for getting a royal or a nice run of 4oak's that will put money in your pocket for a particular session.

To try to change this reality is pointless. Just accept it or find a different casino game to play that you think you have a better chance to come out ahead on. Or learn ult x vulturing if you are determined to play at an advantage. Or quit going to the casino all together. Or quit going to your local and only fly into destinations where you can find positive paytables. Those my friend are your options.
Your answer is spot on. If we are going to "accept it", as you say, we should realize playing negative VP costs money and the bigger we play and/or the longer we play, the more it costs.

If you seek to limit your cost by playing smaller, the downside is your pay tables will normally be worse. However, the pay table decrease is offset by a lower total coin-in. At the moment, I believe a better plan is to limit playing time instead. There are a number of ways to do this.

The casino does not want us to play small or limit the number of hands we play. The casino wants us to play as big as possible for as long as possible. Playing negative video poker games is a balancing act between pay tables, comps, coin-in and playing time very similar to playing positive games. The difference is when playing negative games, the math is backwards.

davidearl
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Post by davidearl »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:51 am
davidearl wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:29 pm
Phil, I too have traveled the country to many casinos and gamings. I have been to 117 casinos/gaming in 21 states plus Ontario while working as an Expeditor. About a third of my casino profits came from casinos on the road. I check any nearby casinos check the games, the promos and ask about what I can get with a new players card. I do the math and decide. The math works for me.
Dave. Many of us play video poker just because we enjoy playing video poker. We would enjoy video poker if there was no money involved. This may seem strange to you, but it's not uncommon. Most of us live in places where positive video poker games are practically impossible to find or only stay positive for very short periods of time. Our choice is to play what we have or not play at all.

To get the most enjoyment from our casino visits, we play the best games we can find as accurately as we can. I consider myself a Recreational player. I own three copies of Bob Dancer's VPW software and practice often. My wife is a Gold member of this website and uses the traffic light strategy feature. She plays the same 97% deuces wild game on this website she plays at the casino. We play as accurately as we can not because there is profit to be made. We play accurately because it lets us play more hands with our money. Comps are more important to us than making money. We use comped casino hotel stay as mini vacations.

My beef with the experts is they choose to limit their advice and contributions to only potentially profitable games. We think this leads players to believe making a profit is the only purpose for playing video poker. We believe this causes players who play negative games to play too long, risk too much and pay too much for comps. What we would like to see is an expert include advice on playing the common 97% games we find around the country. I don't think I am alone in that regard.
There are a lot of 'Tweeners who read the Recreational Player posts. In my posts I addressed several things that can help both RPs and APs. When you say things like "the math does not work anymore", you are not helping them. I don't know if you say that to get replies, or you're in denial. If you play 97% games, the math still works. You lose money because the math says you will. I'll go a little deeper into my previous posts.
I said I gave up 100 play games because they were costing me money. I wasn't actually loosing money. At the time I was actually up $1800 and change. But at single play, I was up $15,625 and change with a lot less coin in. 100 play is a lot more fun, so I play it for free on this site, and play single play at casinos. Better return and longer play.
I play as many promos as I can, if they help my return. A drawing where my gold card has earned me a handful of chances, I don't have much of a chance against diamonds with hundreds or thousands of chances, so I pass on those. A hot seat drawing, my chances are the same as a diamond card's, I'll play. When the promo's over, I stop playing. Better return, shorter play. You and I have both seen people who keep playing until the money's gone.
I have played earn and win type promos, where you can get free play for earning as few as 100 pts, and as much as 4000 pts. When the promo's over, I go home. Better return, shorter play. If you NEED more play, play for free on your smart phone, or laptop.
Not every RP wants the perks you have, they just want a better return for less money. Not every AP wants to spend the time to be a "professional", as you called me. They just want a better return on their money. I hope this helps.

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

David. I have no issue with anything you stated in your post. There are many players who would benefit from an open discussion of negative game strategy. If you play negative video poker games without limits, you will lose without limits. I have been on this forum for over eight years. I have seen members come and go. All I wish to see is a forum where regular everyday small time players can discuss playing video poker without being harassed. There should be no subject that is forbidden. We should be tolerant of other member's views. So far, that has not occurred.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Belated thanks to OTABILL and SMR for posts two days ago about CET ,Ft McDowell, LA,etc.. :up:

Searching those and others such as Laughlin.
Am willing to fly,on them of course.
Had ARFB to Tahoe, Reno, and others in my past life (BJ days)and i miss that stuff.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

tech58 wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:03 pm
Belated thanks to OTABILL and SMR for posts two days ago about CET ,Ft McDowell, LA,etc.. :up:

Searching those and others such as Laughlin.
Am willing to fly,on them of course.
Had ARFB to Tahoe, Reno, and others in my past life (BJ days)and i miss that stuff.
When the Fort opens I will venture there. Of course it will have new name and building (We-Ko-Pa Casino Resort). The old/current building at a decently separated non-smoking VP/Slot area which unfortunately didn't house the best paytable, at least of the games I played. I may very well stick to Bingo, much more social -- assuming same packages, one could play for 4 hours for about $100. Not bad for an evening's entertainment with a chance to come home with more than you originally spent. Then again, without my wife not sure that will be satisfying.

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