Something to Think About

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
New2vp
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Re: Something to Think About

Post by New2vp »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:22 am
Tedlark wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 6:32 pm
You're right tech, I guess I can give Phil some slack. Wow, I feel like something's come over me.
Me too. I have decided to cut myself and the forum some slack and back off on my opinions. I have not changed my beliefs and I know I am not going to change the beliefs of others. This is a gambling forum. People come here to read happy stories about winning, not have their hopes dashed by someone who plays quarters ...

Everyone should be free to express their own opinions as long as it doesn't become overbearing or repetitive. Nothing is gained by continually arguing over the same issues ...
Boy, what a difference a day or two makes, huh?
tech58 wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:28 pm
Realizing that we are all getting a little quarantine/stir crazy Ted, i would like to point out a few facts.

That post was one of FP's more relevant and cogent, and certainly one of the shortest on record.
I am not sure if the day after Easter is a religious holiday somewhere,but cutting him a little slack
seems a Christian thing to do. :D :up:
Well, tech, it seems fairly safe to say whenever there is the rare post that is "more relevant and cogent" and less repetitive with respect to his typical compulsive rants, it will be quickly followed by one that regresses towards the more typical lack of relevance, cogency, or originality.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Truthful observation New.
I should have known. :ouch:

FloridaPhil
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Post by FloridaPhil »

There are many questions asked by everyday players that go unanswered. Answers that would help someone other than APs.

Suppose you play at a casino that offers two single line Deuces Wild games. The quarter game is 97.05% at max coins ($1.25). The dollar game is 97.68% at single coin ($1). Which is the better game to play?

I can post a long list of these questions. Some of them have been asked before. The "expert" answer is something like, "Is it better to be hit by a truck or a bus?". Who is helped by this answer?

Pretending that everyone has access to positive games and great comps leads players to believe they are at fault if they don't. No one is disputing math. What we need are experts who will answer all player questions not cherry pick questions that few people need answered.

Before the shutdown, millions of people played negative video poker games. Some day, hopefully soon, they will again. How about helping them?

New2vp
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Post by New2vp »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:13 pm
There are many questions asked by everyday players that go unanswered. Answers that would help someone other than APs.

Suppose you play at a casino that offers two single line Deuces Wild games. The quarter game is 97.05% at max coins ($1.25). The dollar game is 97.68% at single coin ($1). Which is the better game to play?
Wow, deep difficult questions that no one has ever thought of before! Do you know the answer to this question? If so, why do you keep asking it? If you haven't been able to figure it out the first couple hundred times it has been posed, what makes you think you will retain the answer this time?

How much do you think all the everyday players that you believe you represent would pay to purchase a book with the answer? Here's a couple questions for you: How many times have you asked a similar question? Or how many times have you posed an answer? And how many times in the future are you going to do the same? I realize that the latter is a problem in the long term that calls for a prediction over an uncertain time frame. I could predict that if Webman does not once again ban you for doing the same things you have said you wouldn't do, short coining a higher denomination machine will be referenced by you maybe another 100 times this year.

The actual answer to the question you posed would be different for different people. Heck, it is even different for you depending upon what time of the year, or even what time of the day it is. Do you want the top prize to be $250 or $1,000? Do you want to win $250 for quad deuces or $200? If you simply want to limit your expected loss, I think you should stop underestimating the intelligence of those everyday players that you think they represent. I'm guessing that most of them that would bother to read advice about video poker would be able to tell that losing 2.32% of $1 is better than losing 2.95% of $1.25.

This is so obvious, once the question is posed, that no one will ever write a book about it. I first observed a quotation on single-coin play (before I had ever played more than a few hands of video poker) in a chapter of a casino gambling book by Anthony Brisbane. I think that book referenced WinPoker and that reference was the first time I had ever saw Bob Dancer's name. The information about single coin play was basically fully explained in a paragraph or two. And all that predated this forum.

It really doesn't matter how many times you ask different versions of the same question. No amount of this question posing will ever make up for the idea that you used to lose lots of money after believing that your own results at video poker were more important in forming future strategies and predicting future results than what the theoretical expectations of the game would have shown you if you had actually comprehended what the "expert" said in his book.

From your recent posts, you still haven't learned your lesson. Everytime you say or think, "It works for me," that is revealing that you think your own particular experience is somehow superior to the realization that the random number generators that you will face in the future have zero correlation to what random number generators have supplied you in the past.
FloridaPhil wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:13 pm
I can post a long list of these questions. Some of them have been asked before. The "expert" answer is something like, "Is it better to be hit by a truck or a bus?". Who is helped by this answer?
I wouldn't mind seeing questions that have not been asked and answered. The example in this post is not one of those. Turning this around, who is helped by your question that wasn't already helped by the first couple hundred times you posed it?
FloridaPhil wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:13 pm
Pretending that everyone has access to positive games and great comps leads players to believe they are at fault if they don't. No one is disputing math. What we need are experts who will answer all player questions not cherry pick questions that few people need answered.
The video poker software that is available actually works on negative games as well as positive games. No expert is hiding the best way to play negative games from you.

I've highlighted your use of the word "we." Often, when you write this, the proper term that you should be using is "I." I realize you think you are being noble in helping countless others, but when it comes to vp play and theory, you may want to take care of yourself first.

You continually clamor away that the expert doesn't meet your needs or answer your questions. To give historical perspective, you spent quite a lot of time hounding the expert's posts here until he got fed up with you and greatly reduced his frequency of posting. You can claim that he wasn't always nice and wasn't appropriately considerate of your feelings (oh, yes, and the feelings of the masses that you claimed to represent). I can excuse him for that because there are lots more productive things to do with time than trying to the misconceptions of an amateur that overestimates his own abilities and who either doesn't have the capacity or the inclination to learn from his own mistakes. Until you get the proper amount of introspection, I fear that will continue to be the case.

Yes, I realize that everything that I wrote here may not help all the everyday players that you represent, but they aren't all making a nuisance of themselves.

seemoreroyals
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Post by seemoreroyals »

Sorry do disappoint you FP, but as much as we receive help with strategy from VP experts, they do not have the stroke with casino management to reverse the trend of diminishing paytables and diminishing comps. If anything, as these experts help an increasing number of video poker players sharpen their skills, things will continue to stay the same or perhaps the casinos will lower either their paytables or comps to VP players. It is what it is. All the complaining or philosophying by you or anybody else is not going to change that.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

Spot On smr. That outlines very well what we face. :up:

New, you also nailed it, in much greater detail.Different subject.
However, when the WIND is out of the South(Florida in this case),you might want to face North when------------ :roll:

New2vp
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Post by New2vp »

Tech, thanks for the warning. Points will likely not be directly addressed, but that's ok.

tech58
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Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:21 pm

Post by tech58 »

seemoreroyals wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:45 pm
Sorry do disappoint you FP, but as much as we receive help with strategy from VP experts, they do not have the stroke with casino management to reverse the trend of diminishing paytables and diminishing comps. If anything, as these experts help an increasing number of video poker players sharpen their skills, things will continue to stay the same or perhaps the casinos will lower either their paytables or comps to VP players. It is what it is. All the complaining or philosophying by you or anybody else is not going to change that.
Fine summary,smr, of the decline of VP over the last 15-20 years or so.
Also spot on about the fruitlessness of "complaining or philosophying(sec)".
Which begs the question, What can we do about it that DOES get their attention.
One thing that comes to mind,and could probably be best explored on a new thread,is to vote with your feet.
Find a better deal. I hear background vibes from time to time but nothing solid. Laughlin-Riverside,
Lake Charles, LA.,CT.,CO.etc. etc..
Where actually IS the best package,machines, comps, perks,cash back,free play, the total impact on ER?
Not looking for any info. on anybodies secret edge, just generally what 2-3-4 Million coin-in per year can expect at other places. If a casino generates more action because of their "package" they will continue or enhance it.
If we let the casino play us,they will. They are not our friend!!

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

tech58 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:38 pm
Find a better deal. I hear background vibes from time to time but nothing solid. Laughlin-Riverside,
Lake Charles, LA.,CT.,CO.etc. etc..
Where actually IS the best package,machines, comps, perks,cash back,free play, the total impact on ER?
Not looking for any info. on anybodies secret edge, just generally what 2-3-4 Million coin-in per year can expect at other places. If a casino generates more action because of their "package" they will continue or enhance it.
If we let the casino play us,they will. They are not our friend!!
I actually posted something, as have others, about Fort McDowell in AZ. Three caveats: (1) the casino, like others, is currently closed; (2) A new casino is being constructed and the build will probably be completed by the time the casinos in AZ reopen so who knows what machines will be there; (3) obviously, the information cited below is dated. Hope you find the following of interest:

January 2020, (My comment}
Interesting article concerning VP pay tables at casinos outside Vegas (actually outside Nevada). Given my previous posts concerning smoking, this is FYI only. No surprise to those of us in AZ that Fort McDowell is #1. Given the construction of the new casino there, who knows if that will last.
https://www.bestuscasinos.org/blog/5-be ... las-vegas/

July 2019 (My comment)
The last royal I hit, before we stopped playing at local casinos due to the smoke, was at Fort McDowell a number of years ago on one of their 10/6 DDB $.25 machines with the SF penalty (40 vs 50 or 200 vs 250 max coin). Close to a 99.8% machine. Ironically, I drew 4 while holding the singleton ace of clubs.


And finally, this link to a blog containing my, and others, comments from 2018: https://www.videopoker.com/forum/viewto ... l&start=20

seemoreroyals
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Posts: 519
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 5:21 pm

Post by seemoreroyals »

tech58 wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:38 pm
seemoreroyals wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:45 pm
Sorry do disappoint you FP, but as much as we receive help with strategy from VP experts, they do not have the stroke with casino management to reverse the trend of diminishing paytables and diminishing comps. If anything, as these experts help an increasing number of video poker players sharpen their skills, things will continue to stay the same or perhaps the casinos will lower either their paytables or comps to VP players. It is what it is. All the complaining or philosophying by you or anybody else is not going to change that.
Fine summary,smr, of the decline of VP over the last 15-20 years or so.
Also spot on about the fruitlessness of "complaining or philosophying(sec)".
Which begs the question, What can we do about it that DOES get their attention.
One thing that comes to mind,and could probably be best explored on a new thread,is to vote with your feet.
Find a better deal. I hear background vibes from time to time but nothing solid. Laughlin-Riverside,
Lake Charles, LA.,CT.,CO.etc. etc..
Where actually IS the best package,machines, comps, perks,cash back,free play, the total impact on ER?
Not looking for any info. on anybodies secret edge, just generally what 2-3-4 Million coin-in per year can expect at other places. If a casino generates more action because of their "package" they will continue or enhance it.
If we let the casino play us,they will. They are not our friend!!
tech 58, I think the best deal out there depends on the casino choices you have within driving distance from where you live and/or whether you willing and able to fly to get somewhere else. If I lived in or near Vegas I would go off strip where much better VP opportunities are available. Where we live, our closest casinos are in Bossier City, LA. The best local casino there is Horseshoe which is part of the CET empire. We switched our play there about 9 or 10 years ago. Before that we played at Sam's Town. The rooms and restaurants there were nice but the casino was a dump. The only reason we played there was so that we could get comped trips to Sam's Town in Vegas. At the same time we were going to Lake Tahoe about 5 or 6 times a year. We played at what used to be Horizon and then later at Montbleu.

We decided to combine all of our play so we could work a comp system to our advantage while at the same time finding a players card program that has casinos spread out in the parts of the country we like to visit. After looking at all that we ended up with CET. It's not perfect, I agree with you they are not our friend, but until a better rewards program comes along, they are the best we have been able to find that meets our needs.

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