casinos and inflation

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
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OTABILL
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Re: casinos and inflation

Post by OTABILL »

Chicagoan wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:40 pm
I also go for entertainment..... the entertainment of watching my hard-earned dollars disappear down the sucking coin-in slot on the VP machines that seemingly can never be satisfied.

Wait ---- scratch the above paragraph. There is no entertainment value in losing. I go to the casino to try to win something. I don't always, but that is my only focus. If you want entertainment without the sucking noise of your money sliding down the tube, may I suggest bird-watching?
Too each his own. I've done bird watching in the past. Not as entertaining as it was spending an evening with my wife playing VP. No laughter bird watching. Of course "losing" is not enjoyable. Losing sucks. Just like going to a ballgame and seeing your team lose. However if you view spending a budgeted amount for night's entertainment with the possibility of getting paid to have fun for spending money, it feels differently.

Back in the 90s I was vacationing at a resort on Hilton Head Island. Green fees at the golf course were $200. I suppose those people who paid it with no chance of getting reimbursed would have been better off bird watching for free. Besides which, hitting a golf ball close to an alligator is not that entertaining.

Perspective.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

FloridaPhil wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:54 pm
Chicagoan wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:40 pm

We started this thread talking about inflation. A dollar was worth ten times more in 1965 than it is today. The way things are going in our casinos, some day we will all be forced to play $100 games with the coin button locked on max.
Two Points:

First, We started this thread? -- WE?

Second: We will all be forced to play $100 games with the coin button locked on max. -- Last time I checked, players are, or will never be FORCED to play at all.

I know, I know, I just completely picked Phil's post apart.......

notes1
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Post by notes1 »

otabill, for some folks, playing a casino game without some notion of an advantage, is an attack on their manhood. what you and i and millions of others know, is that our attitude is the reality for the vast majority of players. we are at a disadvantage, we accept it and enjoy ourselves, nonetheless.

i attempt to play the best games, but if it means i would need to spend my gambling hours playing mind numbing JOB for hour after hour, forget it. i'll play a weaker game, and have fun. i might even throw in a couple of spins at slots.

if, after a year, it costs me a couple of grand, so be it. i worked hard, saved my money, no big deal.

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

notes1 wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:30 am
i started this thread in the rec' section for a reason, was hoping to exclude the statistically insignificant number of players who actually assert that they make money, from playing at casinos.

to counter the increase hold by casinos, in part due to inflation, what i have seen is that players come to the casino, with a set amount of money they are willingly to lose. they play the best games they can find, but they still know the house has an advantage on most everything. they will play lower denominations, less than full play, slower, anything that will give them the most time to play and lose the amount they have allocated.

a casino visit that used to last 5 hours and cost someone $100, they may now get 4 hours. no more revenue to the casino, no additional cost to the player, just less time playing.
Yes, and that is pretty much what happens. Or people go less or a combo of both. Here is Illinois Gaming Revenue from year 2000 to 2011. I stopped there because "video gaming" started in Illinois bars and restaurants in late 2012 and the comparison is more unfair.

Although total inflation was 29.7% during this time frame, the Adjusted Gross Revenue per patron was flatter than inflation during this time. And total admissions went down at even a FASTER rate, leading to a lower revenue for the year even before inflation!
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FAA wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 1:05 pm
You post this poster from time to time. It is incredibly vague and a waste of wall space. How many people are actually going to hit the M Rewards desk to learn more? Even though the background is green, to me it is a red light to severely curtail my gambling. It can only backfire on the casino. They're warning you that a machine mugging is imminent! I'd be too afraid to even sit down for more than five minutes.
It's MGM trying to be "responsible" toward problem gambling. I have no problem when casinos try to do this. I thought the sign is cute. I took a pic of one outside of Aria in Vegas. But it also falls into the adage of "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."

notes1
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Post by notes1 »

unfortunately, i had a hard time seeing the graphs, likely my old eyes. you chose an interesting time frame, the 'heyday' years up to 2008 and then the collapse, after the great recession.

apparently, what you discovered was that players make adjustments, depending on their personal financial situation, the economy and outlook going forward, and what payouts the casino(s) are offering.

my longtime buddy plays at NFalls casino and he is really a low rollover and plays slow. will go with his wife and play slots and bet thirty to fifty cents per spin. drinks beer by the case and it is all free. and, while small, they still get some other comp dollars. a normal day for him is losing $50-70. i think that is a pretty good deal. play for 5-7 hours, drink a bunch of beer, get enough comps to buy a hamburger and once in a while get a hotel room.

getting back to the original topic....casinos and inflation. if i look at things with a different lens than that of a player, it is easier to understand how my $1.25 bet just isn't going to get me as much, as 10-12 years ago.

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

notes1 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:53 pm
unfortunately, i had a hard time seeing the graphs, likely my old eyes. you chose an interesting time frame, the 'heyday' years up to 2008 and then the collapse, after the great recession.
Yeah, data is a bit blurry, but you can click for a bigger image.

Key data I was looking at:

2000:
Adjusted Gross Revenue (AGR) per patron: $87
Admissions: 19 million
AGR for year: $1.66 billion

2011:
Adjusted Gross Revenue (AGR) per patron: $100
Admissions: 14.8 million
AGR for year: $1.48 billion

Just to see the improvement in the boom years, here's the end of 2007:

Adjusted Gross Revenue (AGR) per patron: $120
Admissions: 16.5 million
AGR for year: $1.98 billion

So until the great recession, they were a lot more in line with inflation in terms of numbers. But admissions were still down from 2000 to 2007. And obviously the Great Recession affected casinos (or any business that thrives on disposable income) greatly.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

notes1 wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:24 pm
otabill, for some folks, playing a casino game without some notion of an advantage, is an attack on their manhood. what you and i and millions of others know, is that our attitude is the reality for the vast majority of players. we are at a disadvantage, we accept it and enjoy ourselves, nonetheless.

i attempt to play the best games, but if it means i would need to spend my gambling hours playing mind numbing JOB for hour after hour, forget it. i'll play a weaker game, and have fun. i might even throw in a couple of spins at slots.

if, after a year, it costs me a couple of grand, so be it. i worked hard, saved my money, no big deal.
I agree almost completely other than for most Recreational players the advantage/disadvantage terminology would not be part of their thought process. I have no beef with those who view recreational VP different than you and I. What ever floats your boat is fine with me. My problem is, as you indicated, with those who diss those of us who view VP from a different perspective. This is especially true of the guru, and his true believers, who say if you don't have an advantage don't play. That's equivalent to telling me not to go to an MLB game and pay X amount for tickets, parking, etc. when I can watch it for free on my TV at home. What they don't get is we are paying for the experience in each case.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

OTA when you talk of the Guru and his true believers who say if you don't have an advantage don't play I see that as them giving advice but, you don't necessarily need to take that advice.

I personally do not care how much, who, when, where and why a person plays video poker because it doesn't affect my play in the least bit. I personally don't care if someone else has problems or is critical of my play because, it is my play. I'm gambling with my money and no one else's.

Ultimately, play the way you feel comfortable playing and screw those who don't like it.

tech58
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Post by tech58 »

There is a continuum from AP'S, who do what they do and find positive plays and exploit them to their deserved benefit, all the way down to, " victim" contributors to casinos bottom line, who do not not know the game,do not care, and feed the beast between ordering $5 beers and $7 cocktails.
Most of us fall somewhere toward the upper end of the continuum.

Each of us gets to select our position on this parade.
TED nailed the selection process perfectly. No more words needed. :up:

notes1
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Post by notes1 »

Tedlark wrote:
Mon Apr 20, 2020 2:08 pm
OTA when you talk of the Guru and his true believers who say if you don't have an advantage don't play I see that as them giving advice but, you don't necessarily need to take that advice.
i think that is exactly what he is doing. and, i include myself.

don't want to speak for otabill, but i don't think he is complaining that some folks (guru and followers) offering their advice/opinion. i believe what he is commenting on is that same group can see no other reason to play, other than with an advantage.

he gives a great example, that same group giving advice, would argue that there is no reason to watch/pay for a live performance, when seeing it for free on tv is available.

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