Health Costs Trump Better Paytables

The lighter side... playing for entertainment, less concerned about "the math."
Jstark
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Re: Health Costs Trump Better Paytables

Post by Jstark »

I can just go to Toledo. Completely smoke free indoors and VP games up to 99.92%.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

Jstark wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:13 am
I can just go to Toledo. Completely smoke free indoors and VP games up to 99.92%.
The best of both worlds. You are fortunate.

Jstark
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Post by Jstark »

I'd say the "smoke free" part is better.

Chicagoan
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Post by Chicagoan »

There is a big Harrahs in downtown New Orleans that is 100% smoke-free. The paytables are so-so. It is a citywide ordinance. The casino fought it, but lost.

In my observations, the casinos see a small but potent segment of the population that is being shunned from going places because they cannot smoke. So the casinos cater to this segment. Although small, it is truly a captive audience, because the casino is the only place they can smoke.

As anyone who has been to Vegas will testify, gamblers love smoking. Vegas is probably the smokiest city in America. There are no or few smoking restrictions there: casinos, restaurants, hotels, stores, what have you. Sin City = Smoke City. I once heard about a VP player who was confronted with a choice --- play in smoky casinos or stay married. He chose the smoky casinos, LOL.

I may occasionally play VP in a smoking area, but I leave if a smoker gets near me. If a cigar smoker comes close to me, I always speak up. In my opinion, that is the rudest and most self-absorbed habit there is. But I have discovered that cigar smokers (the ones that do it in public, at least) love to get into spats and arguments with those who are disgusted/offended with this filthy habit. It takes a certain kind of a$$hole to stink up an entire area like that. Sort of like the kid who loves to fart on the school bus.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

I am reopening this topic for a variety of reasons. Since I started it and since the last post, my wife passed away from cancer which both of us believe was caused by second hand smoke in our local casinos. Also, the Covid 19 pandemic has ravished the country. Lately, casinos have reopened with varying degrees of protective measures in place. As a recreational player who has ventured out to play VP the past two months, the topic issue has determined where to play. My preferred casino which has the best pay tables has instituted a seemingly good policy of checking temperatures and masks to be worn at all times. However, smoking is still permitted. I was told folks could lower their masks to take a puff and then put their back on. How absurd, it contradicts and sabotages the whole purpose of wearing a mask at all times. I decided to go to another local casino whose policy is to check temperatures, and have masks on at all times but also includes no smoking and no eating at machines. The VP pay tables are definitely worse though the progressive amounts mitigate it to some extent.

So in the long run costs more? One thing that recreational players don't factor in deciding where to play is health costs. Is the risk to one's health worth the EV playing better machines? Given what has transpired for me the last few years is a resounding no. You may save or even accumulate more money from VP. However those extra dollars may easily go out the door paying health expenditures. Furthermore, you can't put a monetary value on pain, suffering and losing your life. It is a calculated risk. I know the AP response is not to play if good EV opportunities don't exist. But when it comes to entertainment, financial costs are not necessarily the primary determinant.

For, me I enjoy playing VP for a variety of non-monetary reasons. I consider playing VP in that regard and view "losses" as an expense the same as green fees for golfers, boat rental for fisherman, and, in non-Covid times, season tickets to your favorite pro or college baseball, football, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc. teams. Just my two cents worth. I apologize if any of you find repetition from previous posts made years before.

Stay safe and healthy.

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

We have talked before about this OTB. If Mohegan Sun goes back to allowing indoor smoking, I am done. I got so tired of my casino clothes stinking up my car. The second I would walk in the house my daughter who lives with us would go nuts as the smoke stale smell would hit her. I would have to leave my clothes in the garage or do an immediate wash. Can’t wash my insides in the washer though. Anyway, I don’t blame her and my decision is made should they go back to allowing indoors. Reading your sad but wise story too helped me make that decision

Lucky Larry
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Post by Lucky Larry »

Otabill,
Sweet C and I concur with your analysis. We loved Fort McDowell when out there but it was a health risk. Unfortunately, none of the casinos in our La. area are smoke free even now during COVID. Also, like many others we try to mitigate the health risks. Ditto playing VP is an entertainment activity sometimes with really nice perks. I certainly support you and Olds decisions.

rascal
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Post by rascal »

OTABILL, my condolences on the loss of your wife. if it is not too painful, what form of cancer did she have? What stage was she at when diagnosed?

I totally agree with you that the risk to one's health is absolutely not worth any benefits offered by casinos that refuse to accept their moral obligation to care about the health of their employees and customers.

The airline industry went down this road many years ago, when it was conclusively proven that airline employees and travelers were at extreme risk from second-hand smoke. Today, you will be taken off a plane by an Air Marshal if you light up. It should be the same for every public space.

If a person desires to smoke and risk their health, they have every right to do so in their own home. But they do not have the right to endanger other people in public spaces.

OTABILL
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Post by OTABILL »

rascal wrote:
Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:50 am
OTABILL, my condolences on the loss of your wife. if it is not too painful, what form of cancer did she have? What stage was she at when diagnosed?

I totally agree with you that the risk to one's health is absolutely not worth any benefits offered by casinos that refuse to accept their moral obligation to care about the health of their employees and customers.

The airline industry went down this road many years ago, when it was conclusively proven that airline employees and travelers were at extreme risk from second-hand smoke. Today, you will be taken off a plane by an Air Marshal if you light up. It should be the same for every public space.

If a person desires to smoke and risk their health, they have every right to do so in their own home. But they do not have the right to endanger other people in public spaces.
Thanks Rascal. She was originally diagnosed with Stage 1 Lung cancer. Unfortunately, it metastasized. It was her second cancer, though the two were not related.

POKERKAT
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Post by POKERKAT »

Have communicated with a few hosts from the casinos that I love to go to, they don't really want to address the smoking issue. So, I have stayed away from all the casinos and I really miss them. How in the world with a respiratory virus can you allow people to forcefully blow out smoke and still think you are keeping people safe? I understand that casinos are one of the last places for smokers to recreate and smoke, but as a person who is a nurse and has survived cancer for 17 years.....I don't think so.

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