Is that payback % adjustable.... I think so.

[pokeherguy]

{Is it so bizarre to think that a casino can legally create their own payback precentage without adjusting the paytables? }
 
Hey I'm with you, I believe anythings possible and would never profess to being a vp know-it-all. I added the last line in my previous post {  But its not possible to do this with vp machines and even if it were why would they. } because if nothing else its fun discussing the possibilities.

[shadowman]

This is getting out of hand.
 
The fact is casinos can NOT change the return percentage on class III machines without changing the paytables. This is not some rumor, this is required by LAW in every state where I've seen the regulations. I know it's required in both Arkansas and Mississippi. If you doubt it then read the state regulations.
 
Come on guys. A person saw one screen without seeing the entire context of what what going on. If you go to the IGT website (the casino side ... I got in once through some kind of loophole), what you will see is they advertise the various paybacks of the games that can be configured by return % just as mentioned above and the paytables are shown over on the side. It doesn't take much of a stretch to see that is also how they might set up the program for the casino itself. That way the casino doesn't need to play with the paytables. Simply select the % they want and the paytable is set automatically. It's simple and makes lots of sense.
 
I do believe the casinos can also set the paytables manually, but I think that option is seldom used.
 
 

[faygo]

The way I read the issue is that inorder to set payback percentages without altering the paytable would necessitate removing some hand possibilities or doubling or tripling  others. Both of which are not allowed by State Statues. Most notibly Nevada. We are talking Class III machines here and not the ones with the Cowgirl, right.

[spxChrome]

What about Indian Reservations?  They are not requlated the same?  I am sure there is an explanation, these were IGT DDB progessive machines.  But in the menu structure you could set it to any game you wanted by the push of a button and set the payback precentage for that game.  I know for a fact it was set on 97.3% and it is a 9/6/5 machine.

[spxChrome]

And you keep saying why would they?  I dunno maybe cause they can... two casinos just laid off employees for the first time since 1994.  That can't be a good sign, its impossible for casinos to loose money.  My old roommate was a pitboss, we only roomed for 2 years but he worked the craps table for almost 8 years.  He said that the craps table only lost money 2 nights out of those 8 years.  But thats another story.

[scorpio2]

all your answers sound good.by the time we figure the machines out,they'll have changed them,as casinos thrive on change.

[MikeA]

The closest I can get to the 97.3% ER for DDB is 9/5/4 which is 97.87%.  8/6/4 comes out to 97.89%.  8/5/4 is 96.78%.8/5/5 is 98.21% but I've never heard of any paytable like that.9/6/5 that you saw would return 100.38% but I don't recall ever seeing DDB where straights paid 5.I'm wondering if they lowered the paytable and figured in the expected value of the progressive?I just can hardly believe that even a casino ran by a complete idiot would chance being closed down over something that they don't need to do in order to insure profitability.  VP is guaranteed income for them even with legal paytables and I would think that if they were going to control it illegally, they wouldn't squeak out only a 97.3% return.  They could achieve that (and many do) with straight pay table changes.  Hell, if they were going to break the law, I'd think they'd set it for 80% or something like that which would bring in enough to make it worth while!I'm not saying that it would be impossible for secondary programming to be invoked in a VP machine.  I have programmed computers for 39 years and when I first started, I had a manager who told me never to say to a client, "We can't do that!"  The departmental motto was "Anything is Possible through Programming given enough time and money."  This was a company that produced software to process the Financial Applications for Banks.It would however I think be an illegal chip for I seriously doubt that any of the established gaming manufacturers would jeopardize their reputations by licensing any such software.  With that said, there was a story that made the rounds about some company that did exactly that with Video Poker.  If I remember correctly, they were put completely out of business.  Something about interfering with the draw of a Royal Flush.  But my memory isn't perfect.Now just watch, after I get on that soapbox, I'll probably tune into the news tonight and hear that Casino "X" was closed down because of some violation of the State Gaming Regulations in falsifying paytables on a Video Poker Machine!  

[Webman]

A lot of
guessing here… perhaps I can shed some light on the subject?







 What you
are looking at here is the operator interface for a Game King single hand
machine, updating Jacks or Better.The operator would press "Game 1" to set the Jacks or Better pay table to 9/6 in this example.

















The
percentages you see refer to average pay table returns when using optimal strategy that
are available on the given machine. If you have Video Poker for Winners, you
will notice that every pay table has a percentage next to it. These are the
exact numbers that an operator is able to select from and they are directly
linked to a specific pay table.  Operators
can not deviate from the pay tables
provided with the program.Here is an
example:Double Double Bonusa 10/6
paytable is 100.067%a 9/6 paytable
is 98.981%a 9/5
paytable is 97.873%



So an
operator can choose the %.  But the
important point is that all the %s map into
known paytables: and the same % selected on two different machines will be
the same pay table on both machines for the same game type (stp, multi-strike,
or regular triple play).Shown here
is the main interface for triple play. The functionality is essentially the
same, but different pay tables can be selected for different denominations on this particular machine. And
if it is a multi-denomination machine they can choose a different % for each
denomination. $1 games might be higher return percentage than the nickels on
the same machine.



Every game
chip shipped out to a casino has a program on it that has been tested
and verified by the governing regulatory body for that jurisdiction. 
Included with the chip's program are a number of game families like DDBP,
DW, BP, etc.  Then within each of those game families are a variety of
pay-tables with their respective payback percentages. 



Video Poker
programs typically have a variety of optimal payback percentages included,
anywhere from 94+% up to just over 100%, in jurisdictions where 100% games are
approved.  If 100% is not approved in a jurisdiction, then a separate chip
and program is required for those jurisdictions.



Casino
Managers typically give out instructions to their technicians as to what pay
table to "turn on" or "enable" on the program.  It
sounds like the technician was merely resetting the program of the game you
saw, much like we all have to do with Microsoft, from time-to-time. 



Over the
life of a machine, hands are randomly dealt such that the optimal percentage is
achievable, but it is not always realized due to incorrect holds. Royals,
4-of-a-kinds and all other results are arrived at entirely randomly, making the
long term results for the machine a direct
function of the pay table that has been selected and the strategy employed by the player.

[shadowman]

With that said, there was a story that made the rounds about some company that did exactly that with Video Poker.  If I remember correctly, they were put completely out of business.  Something about interfering with the draw of a Royal Flush.  But my memory isn't perfect. 

 
That was the American Coin fiasco where the programmer, Larry Volk, was eventually killed by a hitman. It happened around 20 years ago and led to some of the security measures that are now in place. Here's some info from vpfree:
 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/89427
 
Here's some other relevant info:
 
http://www.americancasinoguide.com/Tips ... nest.shtml
 

[faygo]

Kind of removes all doubt and suspicion. WM thank you for the look at that interface. If you know, how is the "key chip" regulated and is that when the regulatory body has to be notified? Or are the Casinos permitted to change the paytables that are contained within the machine at time of purchase w/o notification. I don't see why they couldn't because the change would be readily apparent by observing the paytables unlike a slot machine.