simple question for rolan

[Eduardo]

Also,

If you have followed my trip reports, you would see that I don't play much differently than you. I try to double my bankroll in a relatively short time of play, or I pack up and go home broke, prepared to lose what I brought with me. The difference is our understanding of how this fits into the long term and I don't go telling people that my way is better than theirs for any reason. It's the best way for me, simply because I enjoy it more. But I don't claim that it gives me any statistical advantage over anyone. I don't make fun of people who play differently.
 
This "short term" business isn't a strategy at all from what I'm hearing now. It's just simple bankroll management.
 
I don't know why you are so hostile towards people who choose to play their own way, or why you are on such a high horse about your own approach. And in case you think I'm being hostile towards you about the way you play, I'm not. I only dislike the way you talk about your strategies as some sort of secret way to win (which ironically are more like a novice would play) and how you insult people for actually knowing what they are doing and presenting genuine data about the game (which you do not have).
 
Like I said, we play rather similarly I think (other than changing denominations rapidly, which seems like a hassle to me).
 
But I don't want to disctract from the simple question that seems to be eluding you... Will 500 people playing the same way you do take more money or less money from the casino than an individual playing the same number of hands as all 500 of them?
 
You might say this way of thinking about it is meaningless. But I'm sure we have 500 people that will read this eventually and it would be nice to know whether they are actually doing themselves any favors by listening to you.

[Eduardo]

I already know the answer. I want to hear what you say the answer is.
 
Will 500 people playing the same way you do take more money or less money from the casino than an individual playing perfect strategy the same number of hands as all 500 of them?

[royal flush]

for him he just looks at the ones that win and forget the rest thats the only way he can call his play winning

[Eduardo]

Not necessarily rf. After my last two great trips, I'm now finally a "winning player" again myself. But that was after a slump of losing trips. If roland has been lucky to avoid enough losing trips to be in the hole, great for him. What I don't like is is arrogance about this actually being a "winning" approach while ignoring the simple mathematics behind it all. It's fine to say that's how he plays. But it's not fair to say it's superior to other people's approach without considering how often it will actually work and to what degree.
 
Using a progressive style approach, you WILL win more sessions. But not necessarily more money and not without more risk. That's about all there is to it.  If you want to go gambling just a few times in your life, it's not a bad approach necessarily. You just have to be prepared to lose it all, and not expect to win a ton.
 
Ignoring the fact that long term play is simply a bunch of short term sessions is another flaw that he fails to recognize.  But again for rolan because I don't want him to miss it:
 

Will 500 people playing the same way you do take more money or less money from the casino than an individual playing perfect strategy the same number of hands as all 500 of them?

[New2vp]

I rest my case!It's a nice thought, but I doubt if you'll ever rest your case.  Thanks for the good intentions, though.

[rolanddude]

Alright Eduardo,
To answer your simple question with a simple answer I did the following experiment...
 
On Dancer's VP for Winners I played 5 sessions (1/100 of your sample group).  I played 8/5 BP & 9/6 DDB using RS's RTT strategy with my baseline denomination .25  and my stop-loss at $900 (quit at $2 level).  My win goal was simply $50 minimum.  I played at .25 level 50credits BP/ 50credits DDB; .50 level 50/100; $1 level 100/100; and $2 level 100/200...pocketing my "mini-wins" everytime I was up at least $5 up to and beyond my $50 win goal (5.5% minimum profit on my risk)
 
Lucky for me I won all five sessions (not unusual since you have around an 80% chance of winning a session).  When I was through I opened up my statistics page to see time spent, hands played, coins won/lost, ERRORS, etc.  On each session this software will tell you the coins won/lost BUT will not figure in or allow for your denomination changes.  Basically it counts every coin/credit as the same value throughout the session even though we all know that a $2 credit is WORTH more than a .25 credit...
 
The statistics showed that on all 5 sessions I won less credits in it's calculations than what I REALLY won in $ value.  For example, it said I lost 70 credits in one session when I actually won almost $60 (I hit 4oak 8's on DDB $1 level).  When I changed back to my base denomination I was up 235 quarters.  So in this case... I won more than the AP'er... 
 
The other sessions were closer...each of them showed me winning credits. I was ahead in actual cash value over an AP player playing at my baseline denom for the session each time.  If you have VPW then try this yourself...
 
I am not being arrogant... I have proven to myself that this is a better approach to playing VP.  Now it is up to you to test it for yourself...not by running sims and figuring on paper...but by application in the Real World.
 
So Eduardo... In these sessions playing identical hands... STS wins over AP.  The only advantage to playing AP strategy is for the purposes Boops mentioned.  You get to play longer.  If both players would have bad luck then it just would take less time (shadow) for the STS player to be done and go home.  If both have good luck then the STS player will win more money if he is on any other denom than his baseline.  SIMPLE MATH!!!

[Eduardo]

Let's try this again.
 
Will 500 people playing the same way you do take more money or less money from the casino than an individual playing perfect strategy the same number of hands as all 500 of them?

[rolanddude]

I gave you my answer Dude!!!

I even went back and highlighted it for ya...

[ruddy]

Stupidity should be against the law. Arrest that man.

[Eduardo]

I gave you my answer Dude!!!

I even went back and highlighted it for ya...


 
You must not have understood the question. Let's try this again.
 
Will 500 people playing the same way you do take more money or less money from the casino than an individual playing perfect strategy the same total number of hands as all 500 of them combined?