Changing Machines?

[FloridaPhil]

Frank, love it...  Unfortunately, we humans often do things that don't make sense just to make us feel good.  I also think changing machines is pointless, but my inner RNG tells me that it feels good. 

[shadowman]

I suspect that if changing machines affects your mental view of randomness then you really don't have confidence period. Also, Frank's answer covers the mental part of the game, but not the physical.  At one casino I sometimes play up to 12 hours. I have to change machines on a regular basis to keep my concentration and to keep my body feeling well. They have both uprights ans slant tops and it helps to keep changing positions.

[royal flush]

the reasons for changing machines are to get a corner machine with more leg room another reason is to get away from a heavey smoker

[Frank Kneeland]

I couldn't agree more with these last three posts. Physical reasons are absolutely good and valid reasons to switch machines. I was strictly talking about the mental stuff. And speaking of that, I wanted to share the results of an informal poll I just did with my current partners.I asked, "Do you ever change machines when you are running bad?"4 out of 6 answered"Gosh, it never occurred to me."How's that for faith? The conclusion is clear, if you believe the math, changing machines simply isn't on your radar as anything that merits thought.Never occurred to them! Pass it along.~FK

[FloridaPhil]

I vote for changing machines to get away from a smoker, especially some guy with a big cigar.....

[kjohn]

I vote for changing machines so my hubby has a more difficult time finding me when he want to go eat the free food I work so hard to supply...He doesn't play and has no concept of the fact that a "hot" run on a machine is far more important than the buffet.. And I forgot to turn on my cell phone....

[Lucky Larry]

Frank,
I respect your opinion. Some clarification please. First, I believe machines are random. See lower comments.



Well here's my opinion for what it's worth. You either believe machines are random or you don't. 1. If you don't believe machines are random then there's no point to anything, and pro gambling is impossible.

Are you referring to "pro gambling" as in gambling pros. If gambling pros - most of us are recreational players.
1) Most players don't have access to 100% machines that are available in Vegas which is where I would assume gambling pros play
2) Most players don't have high limit bankrolls
3) Most players have limited time -gambling is our recreation not our work

If you are referring to being pro active when gambling then I assume that means:
1) Picking the machines with the highest return;
2) Learning games to highest efficiency possible;
3) Considering the volatility of the games;
4) Playing with optimal physical and emotional states;
5) Avoiding defective machines - sticky buttons, etc.

[/QUOTE] 2. If you do believe machines are random, then there is no point to changing machines.[/QUOTE]

If I didn't believe in random it would make even more sense to move - this one is "cold" this one is programmed not to hit until 7 pm tonight.

So help me clarify randomness.
1) A player has the same odds for a "specific" hand every time.
2) A player could go long stretches without hits outside the norm.
3) A player could go stretches with multiple hits outside the norm.
I think shadowman's statement recently was a machine could play 5-10% above pay return for a short period.
4) A player's timing "nano second" hit on the RNG determines the cards dealt.

Even with unlimited funds and time, most of the machines we play don't have a positive return. So, if i have a limited "G" account to play with on a trip, I can sit at a machine where the randomness gives me no hits and I play through all of my money knowing over the long term I should get a hit. I use the math to understand my timing is not right. I may change which button I hit, I may change my speed of play, I may get in and out of the game all to change my timing. Or, I can move which may or may not change my timing.

[/QUOTE] Changing machines is therefore like a gateway drug to other less savory conditions like doubt and self loathing. [/QUOTE]
Pretty interesting statement. I'm not sure how many of us lose our confidence because we change machines. I don't think my confidence is that fragile. But, I think I get the common theme of where you were going.

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank, 
I respect your opinion. Some clarification please. First, I believe machines are random. See lower comments.

Are you referring to "pro gambling" as in gambling pros. If gambling pros - most of us are recreational players.1) Most players don't have access to 100% machines that are available in Vegas which is where I would assume gambling pros play
2) Most players don't have high limit bankrolls
3) Most players have limited time -gambling is our recreation not our work

Well I hadn't really thought about pro/non-pro to be honest. All the pros I know think machines are honest and random. I'm not qualified to discuss anything about non-pros, I don't know any, and still haven't figured out why they do any of the things they do.So I guess I'm saying that my comments are about pros, but I can't see why they couldn't be applied to anyone.If you are referring to being pro active when gambling then I assume that means:
1) Picking the machines with the highest return;
2) Learning games to highest efficiency possible;
3) Considering the volatility of the games;
4) Playing with optimal physical and emotional states;
5) Avoiding defective machines - sticky buttons, etc.


I agree with all those practices and anyone that wants to make money at VP should as well. 2. If you do believe machines are random, then there is no point to changing machines.
If I didn't believe in random it would make even more sense to move - this one is "cold" this one is programmed not to hit until 7 pm tonight.

So help me clarify randomness.
1) A player has the same odds for a "specific" hand every time.
2) A player could go long stretches without hits outside the norm.
3) A player could go stretches with multiple hits outside the norm.
I think shadowman's statement recently was a machine could play 5-10% above pay return for a short period.
4) A player's timing "nano second" hit on the RNG determines the cards dealt.


Yes, if you believe machines are non-random then there are many reasons one could invent to make changing machines seem like a good idea. I have no comments for people in this category.As to your numbered points they are all correct, except the nano-second reference. I believe it's milliseconds.  But hay, whats a few zeros between friends.
Even with unlimited funds and time, most of the machines we play don't have a positive return. So, if i have a limited "G" account to play with on a trip, I can sit at a machine where the randomness gives me no hits and I play through all of my money knowing over the long term I should get a hit. I use the math to understand my timing is not right. I may change which button I hit, I may change my speed of play, I may get in and out of the game all to change my timing. Or, I can move which may or may not change my timing.

If you aren't playing a positive game, then I guess it doesn't really matter what you do as long as you enjoy doing it. Why you'd want to play when you are expecting to lose baffles me. Especially when you obviously know that it is possible to play with and edge. Why would you choose to lose? ...uh never mind, carry on, have fun! Changing machines is therefore like a gateway drug to other less savory conditions like doubt and self loathing.
Pretty interesting statement. I'm not sure how many of us lose our confidence because we change machines. I don't think my confidence is that fragile. But, I think I get the common theme of where you were going.The best way to win is not to play the game. It's all about not setting yourself up for situations that your mind can use to abuse you with later. If you pick a machine and stay with it every time, you have just saved yourself from the possibility of half a dozen variations on the, "so I changed machines and then..." story.There are only three possible outcomes when gambling: Win, Loss, Break-even... And that's true whether you change machines or not. Winning and breaking even usually don't bother people. It's when you lose that you'll want to look back on things and know that you did everything as correctly and logically as possible. Changing machines is not logical, therefore it can lead to guilt issues.If you allow pure math to dictate your decisions on what to play and how to play it, and make only logical choices, there's so much less opportunity for stress, doubt and regret.In fact, the only remaining thing you can beat yourself up for is a math error.Add, subtract, multiply, and divide correctly and your conscious can be clear.If you make hunch bets like changing machines, you'll never know "the sleep of the just".~FKP.S. Of course there's always "the sleep of the just after".

[brmcc74]

Most people that I know that play vp are playing the best pay tables afforded to them with the best strategy for a particular game. If they are getting tanked on a machine and decide to move, it is only an attempt to make a change to a negative pattern that has been occuring during that session(i.e=TIMING). Whats so wrong with changing machines? I will tell you what alot of recreation players would think is crazy- Needing a bankroll of 25K in order to sustain playing at a $0.25 level machine. The jackpot would payout 1k so if you already have 25k what are you playing for?

[shadowman]

  I will tell you what alot of recreation players would think is crazy- Needing a bankroll of 25K in order to sustain playing at a $0.25 level machine. The jackpot would payout 1k so if you already have 25k what are you playing for?
 For entertainment? I know folks with a lot more money than $25K that play nickels. It's not always about big jackpots, especially for many older folks.