Scouting for plays??

[Lucky Larry]

pat,
Welcome to the forum.

First, I'd check vpfree.com to see what they list as the best machines at Ameristar.

Second. as you check and find machines write down the Serial # -often on the side (not the locations #-which changes when the machine is moved.) My favorite casino has one machine still with higher pay tables and I've tracked the machine through 5 moves by using the serial number. I don't even report the dimming screen for fear they will correct the error.

Third, I keep a cheat sheet with recommended play and downloaded "WinPoker" from here to help analyze hands.

Like Frank said techs make mistakes. Two of the multi-hand machines at the same casino have 400 for 4-OAK and a Bonus Deluxe pay table for 9/5 JOB.

[patlives]

thanks guys, frank good to see you found some good stuff! earlier you said there are two types, players and scouts. i think my buddy is a player, he is doing a little early recon tonight and just texted me, "everything sucks" looks like it is up to me on thursday. appreciate all of your help everyone!

[BillyJoe]

$10,000 isn't that crazy but the $16K I'd love to sit at that one for a few hours.  Reminds me of the time when the .25 progressive at my local casino got over $10K.  
It finally hit 5 days later for like $10,300+ Thats alot of quarters.  Even at 8/5 wonder what the % was at this level
Correct me if I am wrong, but that % return only mattered to the individual that actually hit the progressive.

[Frank Kneeland]

thanks guys, frank good to see you found some good stuff! earlier you said there are two types, players and scouts. i think my buddy is a player, he is doing a little early recon tonight and just texted me, "everything sucks" looks like it is up to me on thursday. appreciate all of your help everyone!Don't expect to find huge progressives everyday. The key is patience and not playing when it's below your start number. It'll go in streaks. Most of the time there'll be nothing to do and then you'll be overloaded like this week is turning out for me.Thanks again for reminding me to scout!~FKP.S. I'm now very sore from playing too long. gnight...

[shadowman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that % return only mattered to the individual that actually hit the progressive.


 
Yes and no. For that specific play the answer is yes. However, if a person only plays when they have a similar advantage then they will be the one to hit eventually. It all gets down to playing with a consistent advantage.

[Frank Kneeland]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that % return only mattered to the individual that actually hit the progressive. For some reason, I haven't completely figured out yet, people apply different logic to progressives than they do non-progressives, which results in thinking just like yours.It appears to be human nature to focus on the competitive nature of progressives which blurs and obscures the reality that whether or not you are on a progressive or a non-progressive makes no difference to the hands you are dealt, and when you'll hit a jackpot. Because of the strategy you'll get slightly more Royals, if you are playing a RF progressive.But here's the thing. If you never play when the jackpot is below a certain number then for you it's exactly like playing a non-progressive where the JP paid at least that amount. You will still get a RF about once every 32,000 hands on average.It will still cost you the same on average.Nothing changes in the presence of competition except TIME.Without competition you get to play until you hit the JP.With competition it takes you more trips.Do you get it now?Only the hands YOU pay effect YOU. What happens on other people's machines can only cause you to take a break and come back again later to finish what you were doing.~FK

[backsider]

[QUOTE=spxChrome]
$10,000 isn't that crazy but the $16K I'd love to sit at that one for a few hours.  Reminds me of the time when the .25 progressive at my local casino got over $10K.  
It finally hit 5 days later for like $10,300+ Thats alot of quarters.  Even at 8/5 wonder what the % was at this level
Correct me if I am wrong, but that % return only mattered to the individual that actually hit the progressive. [/QUOTE]
 Ill clear this up for you based on the knowlege Ive received from thoroughly reading many forums while I was overseas a few weeks. You are 100% correct and I wont try to obfuscate that "yes" by telling you that "no" is to even be considered as a viable answer. If you decide to sit at a machine with a huge royal and a crummy paytable, that crummy paytable means one thing, that the game will take your money faster and it is increasingly difficult to make money without hitting that royal flush. All the theory in the world cannot make up anything positive about this play without actually hitting that royal. Even a novice like me understands that. I think Frank K. is saying that if a player spends all his play going after these things then theory says thats some kind of good thing. Not so at all. I read on another forum about a player who has gone 160,000 hands without a royal, another whos in the middle of 300,000+ hands, and another who has never hit one in over 15 years. Theory sure sounds good but if it doesnt really come true then youre in deep poop. So in summary, the poster is so right by saying the game payback means nothing unless the royal is hit by him.  Frank K. a question if you dont mind, and Im not asking out of turn because you know Im a fan but I am thoroughly confused. I read where you havent played with your own money in over 8 years? Is this correct, and how do you pull that off? If you lose does that mean you dont lose anything, and how can I get into that since Im back in Nevada once again?

[Frank Kneeland]

Frank K. a question if you dont mind, and Im not asking out of turn because you know Im a fan but I am thoroughly confused. I read where you havent played with your own money in over 8 years? Is this correct, and how do you pull that off? If you lose does that mean you dont lose anything, and how can I get into that since Im back in Nevada once again?Yes that is absolutely correct. I get paid salary to play machines and have no risk whatsoever. I don't even get paid hourly, so I always try to play as little as I can. Additionally, I insisted on NO BONUS for jackpots, because I just can't be bothered with making more one week and less the next.Most of my career has been spent as a manager, scout, or player. In the late 90's I had my own team, that I financed with two partners in Tahoe. We did very well, but eventually the plays dried up. One of my partners died, and when I came back to Vegas to take care of my mom, she died as well. My remaining partner retired from gambling and married. It was a very sad time for me.I took several years off and wrote the bulk of my book, but when cash started to get thin, (3 years living on savings and not gambling) I decided rather than take any risk, to work simply as a manager/scout/player again.I'm very happy with the deal, but to get a situation like this you'd really have to be me, with my skills and experience. That'd be tricky since the environment that birthed me no longer exists. I may be the Last Dodo...(I'm not a Mohican)I believe my unique situation makes me more impartial than most, because, though I am playing VP for a living, it is for me just a job. I consider this a strong positive towards my ability to comment on and give VP related advice. Part of my tasks for the team is doing paperwork and accounting for several other gamblers. This also gives me a very large sample on which to comment. (VERY LARGE) I get to see randomness from the POV of 10's of millions of hands over the course of decades.~FKP.S. There is no P.S.

[Frank Kneeland]

 You are 100% correct and I wont try to obfuscate that "yes" by telling you that "no" is to even be considered as a viable answer. If you decide to sit at a machine with a huge royal and a crummy paytable, that crummy paytable means one thing, that the game will take your money faster and it is increasingly difficult to make money without hitting that royal flush. All the theory in the world cannot make up anything positive about this play without actually hitting that royal. Even a novice like me understands that. I would point out one thing. You said, "if you sit at a machine with a crummy pay-table". If one is playing a very high progressive, then one isn't playing a machine with a crummy pay-table, since the Royal is included in "the pay-table". Simply because it is an infrequent hand does not mean one can remove it from the equation. Playing in a large team, to me Royals seem quite common. It all depends on your perspective. Anyway, since we mostly play when the RF is 3x or 4x reset amounts, it's as if we are getting 4 times as many Royals as people playing non-progressives. We aren't getting more, we are simply getting 4 times as much money when we hit one. It works out the same though.The two aspects of return are amount and frequency. How Much & How OftenOn random machines you can't control "how often".On progressives you CAN control "how much".~FK

[backsider]

Frank, what youre saying is akin to saying itll all work out in the end, and for many many many players it just does not. Teams have to experience that destructive side as well, and if you say the owner is made of money then no way would he be into video poker.Youre making it sound too good to be true for these teams, and Im not even sure casinos allow teams to converge on their high progressive royal games. At least it doesnt seem like they would or even should. How could their regular players and other guests get their shots at these things, and wouldnt that weigh heavily on how they run the places? Now I am a little bit disillusioned. You really dont play with your own money, and youre only a line employee now and have been like an office manager for some other guy? I thought you were a video poker pro, no? Im really confused over the definition of what a professional really is now. Is Bob Dancer a pro or maybe hes not because I now dont know if he plays with his own money or not. Same with RS and any others who say theyre pros. Are pros only those like you who get some salary for playing, or are they people who make their living from the machines? Is the team owner a pro? You mean all I have to do is audition for the team leader at a machine and Im on a payroll? I can do it in my spare time.