Thoughts For Beginners

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]Single coin dollars will not be better than max coin half dollars in Tampa.[/quote]Sorry, but you are wrong on that.  The single coin deuces wild dollars odds are better than the max coin quarter odds.[quote=alpax]The 10% luck part is probably stuff a player cannot control such as being able to find a seat to play when they want to play.
[/quote]I don't agree.  Six Dancers play for 30 years.  Will they all come out winners?  I don't think so.  He wouldn't want to admit it, but luck is part of winning at VP if only 10%.

[billryan]

phil from Florida likes to pretend math is on his side.
Perhaps he can answer one simple question.

His strategy calls for players to bet one coin until they get a four coin win and then go to max coins. Please show us the math that says that the games payout will be better right after a four coin payout.
Any strategy I or anyone else suggests can be easily proven mathematically. I can show you why its better to hold any given card depending on the game and the payout. That's called Applied Math.
You could just as easily say increase coins played whenever a blonde walks by, or after your fifth sip of a drink. Its voodoo. Plain and simple.
He also thinks dollar players are treated better than quarter players. more nonsense. If I go to Caesars and play full coin hundred play quarters,will they treat me better or worse than someone playing phils magic formula?
Forgetting that extreme example, I play 2000 hands at full play quarters, $1.25 a hand. That's $2500 coin in. phil plays 2,000 hands at a dollar. That's $2,000 coins in. Does anyone here think they'll look and say Bills a lowly quarter player while phil is a high rolling dollar player.
Food for thought.

I like the way someone says max coin half dollars is better than single dollars and phil tries to refute it by talking about quarters.

[FloridaPhil]

Billy, I actually agree with most everything you said here.  The math I offered only showed betting single coin quarters costs less when playing a negative VP game than betting max coin dollars.  It does this by limiting the inevitable losses of playing negative games.  You are totally correct about your blonde walking by strategy vs. my 4 coin win strategy.   Neither is a winning strategy.  Mine is designed to make the game more exciting and nothing more.  In addition, if I could play $100,000 in full pay quarters, I would.The issue we have here is we both live in separate VP worlds.  Since becoming serious about video poker, I've only played in Vegas once last year.  On that visit, I could plainly see the stark differences.  Full pay games are a nonexistent phantom in my world.  Red Rock and South Point both offer them in quarters.  Cash back comps, free offers all over place, VP in gas stations and airports, what kind of world is this?   Not mine.As you know we live in Florida most of the year.  We also have a summer home in the mountains of North Georgia.  We play at the Florida Hard Rocks, Cherokee NC and Mississippi.  Once or twice a year we fly to Black Hawk CO for a week in the Rockies.  In our world 98.9% deuces wild is the Gold standard.  Every once in a while we see NSU deuces, but it's rare.  We are constantly juggling the investment required vs. the comps.  This is tricky because some casinos lure you in with free rooms and flights just to wipe you out on the games.  To slow the blood letting, it takes discipline and even a little trickery.To survive in our world you must pick your opportunities carefully.  Not every offer is a good deal and very few games plus comps break even much less make a profit.  Free play can only be used to play more lousy games, so it doesn't have the same value as cash back.I don't expect you to understand my world of VP.  I'm trying to understand yours.  A world where someone can make a great living playing VP is like tell me anyone can be Tom Brady by read a book or attending some classes on football.   I suppose Bob Dancer has that level of skill and expertise, I frankly do not and never will.  Full pay video poker to me is like going to a zoo and looking at a kangaroo through the cage.  I can see it exists, but I don't know where it lives, what it eats or if it even moves unless I see it for myself.  Believe it or not, my world is the majority's VP experience and for the remaining advantaged few it's coming soon.  I've read in Dancer's book about advantage VP back in 2000.  Today I read how hard it's getting to find, even for him.  What I'm trying to do is help a player who doesn't live in your world to survive in mine.  From the outside, it's very easy for a new player to think the rules and strategies of the past work well in both.  Sadly they do not.  It's true seeking out the best games and playing with computer strategy will help.  Beyond that, throw out the books.  Betting bigger on my games will only get you bigger loses.  You must be very careful in my world as betting bigger to gain more comps can mean you are being grossly overcharged.  Betting "huge" would be a disaster no matter how great the view is from that free suite on the end of the building. Bob Dancer has told me there are advantage games in Florida.  He indicated that I was lazy or stupid for not playing them.  Those opportunities are only available to players who are willing to risk gigantic amounts of money to win very little.  I came by my money the hard way and to me risking any of it to play a video game is ridiculous.  No, I choose to play this game cheap, take advantage of free offerings where I can and walk away after a nice win.  I don't expect you or any of the players in the Vegas or the High Limit world to understand this, but that's how it works in mine.

[ukaserex]

I'm sure this has been mentioned - but wow, 15 pages to sift through. But, on the slightest chance it hasn't - I'll add this:

Playing max coin Nickels (assuming 5 coins is max) would be more advantageous than playing single coin quarters.

Playing max coin $1 would be better than playing single coin $5.

Playing max coin quarters will cost you more per hand than single coin $1, but I think if your bankroll just for that session is $100, you're better off playing the max quarters vs single coin $1.

Luck will vary, of course. As long as you're having fun with it, Phil - who cares?

[billryan]

When you starts offering horrible advice to new players, everyone should care. If you don't, that's on you. Encourage new players to play bad games, and the casinos will happy give them even more bad games to chose from.
Why offer good games when lemmings play bad games and play them badly.

[FloridaPhil]

Well Bill, I see you didn't read my entire post as usual.  You obviously aren't interested in helping anyone, just slinging insults and getting the last word.  We all can see that I am trying to make peace with you and we can also clearly see your motives.  Have a nice day.

[alpax]

I did specifically refer to half-dollars (50 cent denomination) as Airport Deuces is available for those denominations other than the dollar.

Granted it will cost $2.50 a round, you will not be giving up more than a percent by single coining dollars 97.69% (with more efforts making proper strategy adjustments), giving the casino any bigger edge than they already have is very dangerous.

Going every other week or bringing double the bankroll (if it has to be every week) is the "superior" mathematical solution to survive the sessions where the natural royal do not appear, and in the long run of things, the cost to play is cheaper than single coining dollars.

I do not have problems with the way people play, it is their hard earned money. Making false assumptions about Mr. Dancer or the video poker conditions across the nation is where people will have problems with that.

Despite what myself, Billy, Phil, ukaserex, or Mr. Dancer express, people will have fun playing DDB. That will not change.

[billryan]

It's all he has. Making wild, false accusations seems to be his default mode.
Point out he is wrong and you are slinging insults.
Don't agree with him and you are a schill.
Sad! Pathetic!

[onemoretry]

Playing max coin Nickels (assuming 5 coins is max) would be more advantageous than playing single coin quarters.

Playing max coin $1 would be better than playing single coin $5.

Playing max coin quarters will cost you more per hand than single coin $1, but I think if your bankroll just for that session is $100, you're better off playing the max quarters vs single coin $1.

A point Phil has made, and it is , indeed, valid, is that casinos often offer better pay scales at higher denominations. Sometimes, playing short coin at the higher denomination with a reduced royal payout is still better, percentage-wise, than playing full coin at the lower denomination.

[alpax]

A point Phil has made, and it is , indeed, valid, is that casinos often offer better pay scales at higher denominations. Sometimes, playing short coin at the higher denomination with a reduced royal payout is still better, percentage-wise, than playing full coin at the lower denomination.

On a side note, I personally you are the very best person for others to follow on this message board.