An Interview on Problem Gambling Prevention

[royal flush]

you are so off base lumping folks such as bob dancer with the addicted gamblers mr dancer wrote many books, flash cards, teaching many tourists to be better players. mr dancer made alot of money selling his products. my issue with mr dancer is he educated the casinos to fight back downgrading the beatable games. early on in the late 80s and early 90s their were 2 dollar fpdw and a player playing 2 games correctly with a deep enough bankroll could average over 100 per hour. casinos had promos that one had 4 to a royal they would get 125 coin payout a 3 percent edge. this was heaven since card counting on 21 was done. now their are few 25c fpdw and 85 bp the progressive must be over double the amount to have a 1% edge and triple to have a 3% edge and the bankroll requirements are much greater as between royals it can be along wait and some tourist can sit down play 3 hands and hit it and you have to find another game. and without the psycholigacal crap anyone who gambles to a point where other areas of their life are damaged has a problem either financially or in their relationships

[Frank Kneeland]

I have a question along with a few comments. How the heck can anyone compile anything close to accurate about problem gambling or pathological gambling statistics when we all know that finding someone open to admitting to having such a problem is about as common as seeing two albino alligators on the same day?

People are so protective of what others think about us. I guess Im addicted to playing because I always look forward to it, even though I can only get to the machines once a month or thereabouts. Because of that, I see 25 million hand players and those such as B. Dancer as having way more serious problems, but we definitely will only see "no way" and spun rationale from them because they have reputations to uphold and businesses to profit off of. Even this fellow here who talks about "Sweet C" and who seems to play all the time, must have some type of problem. Its a very simple equation: the more one plays, the more of a problem one has. All the spin, cute wording, denial, and "hey, its ME youre talking about Bud" in the world cannot hide that fact.No time for full reply this morning. I think these are good talking points.1. How does the psychological community know about the prevelance of problem gambling?2. Can professional gamblers also be problem gamblers?I'll chime in with what I know later if I have time. Note: Dr. McCown and I talked about this in our "special interview" where I let him interview me and 3 of my team-mates. You may wish to listen to the interview.Very bottom of page: https://www.progressivevp.com/radio_show.php ~FK

[royal flush]

you like i are advantage players altough i am a tax attorney by occupation and vp/poker is a hobby that i am net positive tax law being far more profitable not as enjoyable. my issue with the psycholigical community is they view addictions (gambling, drugs, alcohol,et al) as a profit center unlike the 12 step programs which by their traditions avoid a profit motive where the theripist meter should be on every vp machine as even a 7 5 job would be 100%+ kidding of course. they are the same ones claiming that one kid out of 100 has autism which represents a 6 fold increase over 20 years/ a 6 fold increase in new clients for life once they get the kid on ritilin and other agents. and folks who play vp or games they have an edge are either working it as a full or part time job as long as they have the bankroll deep enough to cover the down swings

[Frank Kneeland]

you like i are advantage players although i am a tax attorney by occupation and vp/poker is a hobby that i am net positive tax law being far more profitable not as enjoyable. my issue with the psychological community is they view addictions (gambling, drugs, alcohol,et al) as a profit center unlike the 12 step programs which by their traditions avoid a profit motive where the therapist meter should be on every vp machine as even a 7 5 job would be 100%+ kidding of course. they are the same ones claiming that one kid out of 100 has autism which represents a 6 fold increase over 20 years/ a 6 fold increase in new clients for life once they get the kid on Ritalin and other agents. and folks who play vp or games they have an edge are either working it as a full or part time job as long as they have the bankroll deep enough to cover the down swingsI think you're forgetting that problem gamblers are not particularly good paying customers. When I talked to the local chapter of GA one of the organizers told me that 99% of their "clientèle" have no money whatsoever. Also the psychological community is not trying to diagnose or treat early stage problem gamblers by expanding the definition. In fact it's the other way around, they are waiting for people to go bust and even turning them away if they still have money.The new treatments are being added to existing 12 step programs and they are also free of charge or state sponsored.There may indeed by a profit motive to some addiction treatment centers, but not so much for gambling addiction...can't get blood out of a stone. I'm also aware of the expansion of autism to include what they now call "autistic spectrum disorders". Nothing like this is happening in gambling research. They are simply getting closer to the root causes and better at treatment. The prevalence has remained the same as the Doc said in the interview. ~FK

[royal flush]

the problem gamblers lost their money in the casinos unlike a poker room players compete against the house the casinos reguard problem gamblers like tobacco companies reguard smokers they just need "new customers" when they bust them out. they dont want us players whom are net winners advantage players or who break even good enough to find decent paytables playing within 1/4% of perfect play. lets face they dont want you or i also the theripist in private practice will clean the last chips the player has plus insurance reimbursment.

[backsider]

you are so off base lumping folks such as bob dancer with the addicted gamblers mr dancer wrote many books, flash cards, teaching many tourists to be better players. mr dancer made alot of money selling his products. my issue with mr dancer is he educated the casinos to fight back downgrading the beatable games. early on in the late 80s and early 90s their were 2 dollar fpdw and a player playing 2 games correctly with a deep enough bankroll could average over 100 per hour. casinos had promos that one had 4 to a royal they would get 125 coin payout a 3 percent edge. this was heaven since card counting on 21 was done. now their are few 25c fpdw and 85 bp the progressive must be over double the amount to have a 1% edge and triple to have a 3% edge and the bankroll requirements are much greater as between royals it can be along wait and some tourist can sit down play 3 hands and hit it and you have to find another game. and without the psycholigacal crap anyone who gambles to a point where other areas of their life are damaged has a problem either financially or in their relationships Whats THAT got to do with someone who apparently from his own writings, cant wait to get up in the morning and go out to chase promotions in order to play a machine for a ton of time? Frank, a person who makes a "good bet" as that wizard is so fond of terming it, is just as prone to being a problem gambler as any winner or loser who plays in any way shape or form anywhere. I believe that in order to take the stigma and fear out of identifying oneself as having a problem, the right people should be coming out and telling the truth about it instead of pretending its all the other guys.

[shadowman]

Whats THAT got to do with someone who apparently from his own writings, cant wait to get up in the morning and go out to chase promotions in order to play a machine for a ton of time?

 
It's called a job. It's what he does for a living. Hopefully, you get up in the morning and go out and perform your job to the best of your ability. What you just tried to denigrate is exactly what a good professional gambler should be doing. That's how they make a living.
 
Simply because you hate those who have been successful while you have failed won't change a thing.

[royal flush]

if playing for the promotions gives the player a play that nets over 100% (assuming the player doesnt play to disturb relationships, the player plays well enough to be playing over 100% and the player has a deep enough bankroll to cover the swings that player by defination can not have a problem as over time his/her bankroll will increase

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=royal flush]

you are so off base lumping folks such as bob dancer with the addicted gamblers mr dancer wrote many books, flash cards, teaching many tourists to be better players. mr dancer made alot of money selling his products. my issue with mr dancer is he educated the casinos to fight back downgrading the beatable games. early on in the late 80s and early 90s their were 2 dollar fpdw and a player playing 2 games correctly with a deep enough bankroll could average over 100 per hour. casinos had promos that one had 4 to a royal they would get 125 coin payout a 3 percent edge. this was heaven since card counting on 21 was done. now their are few 25c fpdw and 85 bp the progressive must be over double the amount to have a 1% edge and triple to have a 3% edge and the bankroll requirements are much greater as between royals it can be along wait and some tourist can sit down play 3 hands and hit it and you have to find another game. and without the psycholigacal crap anyone who gambles to a point where other areas of their life are damaged has a problem either financially or in their relationships Whats THAT got to do with someone who apparently from his own writings, cant wait to get up in the morning and go out to chase promotions in order to play a machine for a ton of time? Frank, a person who makes a "good bet" as that wizard is so fond of terming it, is just as prone to being a problem gambler as any winner or loser who plays in any way shape or form anywhere. I believe that in order to take the stigma and fear out of identifying oneself as having a problem, the right people should be coming out and telling the truth about it instead of pretending its all the other guys.

[/QUOTE]Did you get a chance to listen to the Dr. McCown special interview where we discussed problem gambling as it effects professional gamblers. One of the people in the interview is a professional AP and freely admits to having a serious life long struggle with problem gambling and does not consider himself "cured" because now he wins rather than loses.He also talks about how much less interesting gambling has become to him since he learned about advantage play.Start there and then we can discuss it more.I also sent some follow up questions to Dr. McCown on this topic, but he's dealing with a death in his family and his Mother's in the hospital. He sent me an email and said he'd try to answer after the funeral. I told him please not to worry about it and forget I asked, so we're on our own for a while. My other practicing therapist contact is in the hospital getting hip surgery. I just wanted everyone to know that if you are asking questions related to psychology in the next month, I'll have to try to answer them myself sans my brain trust.I'll do the best I can.

[Frank Kneeland]

[QUOTE=backsider]
Whats THAT got to do with someone who apparently from his own writings, cant wait to get up in the morning and go out to chase promotions in order to play a machine for a ton of time?

 
It's called a job. It's what he does for a living. Hopefully, you get up in the morning and go out and perform your job to the best of your ability. What you just tried to denigrate is exactly what a good professional gambler should be doing. That's how they make a living.
 
Simply because you hate those who have been successful while you have failed won't change a thing.[/QUOTE]First off I think it's incredibly important to sate that professional gamblers (and professionals of all types) can have job related disorders and preoccupation with their chosen profession. The line of demarcation between problem on no problem is crossed when the profession disrupts what is considered the normal aspects of life. (lots of confusion on what's considered "normal"...I have no intention of commenting!)The DSM-IV manual states that "the essential feature of pathological gambling is persistent and recurrent maladaptive gambling behavior that disrupts personal, family, or vocational pursuits."For pro gamblers it's hard for their job to interfere with their job, so focusing on the other personal and family aspects might be wise. I also feel that if someone chooses a gambling related job over a clearly better paying non-gambling job, that could be classified as "disrupting vocational pursuits" for some, in some cases, sometimes. (lots of extenuating circumstances).Can pro gamblers, making a living gambling, do it so much it disrupts aspects of their normal lives? Absolutely!How then could we judge what is normal work ethics, and what is over the threshold of obsession and "problem"? (Wow...tough question! I know enough to know I can't answer that in my life-time.)See if any of you can come up with a measuring stick that works for all...I'll be out for the rest of the day. Good luck!