The magic number seems to be 2010

[notes1]

do not want to beat a dead horse over taxes on casinos, but it does reveal where some of our gambling dollars go. i am also not taking a position on whether the taxes are justified. searching thru a number of published articles regarding the state of ohio, in 2009.-total gambling dollars, approx $2.8b.-taxes are approx 33% in ohio, based on casino gross revenue.-gross revenues are considered the monies that are left, after casinos payouts to gamblers.-gross revenue in 2009 was a little more $900m.-taxes paid to state of ohio in 2009, a little less than $300m.  state revenues have not met projections up to 2014, in most all states. often cited, growing number of casinos, economy and novelty has worn off. i am not picking on ohio, but they have high rate of taxation and figures were fairly easy to access.  these numbers reveal a lot, but to me, among the most important is that nearly 10% of dollars gambled in ohio, in 2009, went to state coffers. i believe this to be a significant percentage of each dollar wagered.  

[ko king]

[QUOTE=olds442jetaway] [QUOTE=OTABILL] I'm not sure about the high variance games. We have consistently played single line game king DDB well over 95% of the time and have seen the same trend. Paytables have pretty much remained constant. In fact, we usually seem to have the worst results, the better the paytable.

     I can agree there. I think though I lost so much more on the best paytables because I played the most on them and bet at a higher level. My best results last year and this while not great by any means have been on Double Down Stud which is a hard game to find at most casinos and the paytables almost always average between 95 and 98 percent.[/QUOTE]

Olds, it seems to me old fashioned luck has a lot to do with my results. In DDB, if you don't get royals, premium quads and even regular quads within a reasonable amount of hands played, no way one will have a good night regardless of paytable or perfect play. The frequency of these hands has seemingly diminished in recent years. Apropos, during numerous trips to Vegas (and some to Laughlin) during the last 8- 9 years I have not had one royal on single line game kings, nor has my wife, despite hours and hours of play per trip. We don't keep records but I am sure this covers 100,000s of hands played combined. However, fooling around one night in the casino on a cruise ship with the worst odds possible, I hit a royal! One of the few I have hit lifetime in a casino. [/QUOTE]

Funny you bring up cruise ship royals, I've been on three different cruises, all with the same cruise line. Now my play is fairly limited on these ships because of terrible paytables but I've had 2 DEALT royals playing $1 denomination.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=OTABILL]In fact, we usually seem to have the worst results, the better the paytable.[/quote]I don't think pay tables have that much effect on the results of a recreational video poker player. What a good pay table does is let you play longer with the same bankroll. This gives you more chances at a jackpot, but unless luck is with you it's the same result. Once you master the best plays for a particular game and learn to play the game without errors, it's all up to fate whether you win or not.  Lucky streaks and bad streaks are as described.   

[notes1]

[I don't think pay tables have that much effect on the results of a recreational video poker player. What a good pay table does is let you play longer with the same bankroll. This gives you more chances at a jackpot, but unless luck is with you it's the same result. Once you master the best plays for a particular game and learn to play the game without errors, it's all up to fate whether you win or not.  Lucky streaks and bad streaks are as described.   
  i do not get this at all. a number of the math folks have already proven how reduced paytables increase the expected loss per hour. one may not get expected results each time, but it only makes sense that reduced pay schedules will cost one more, unless they go with specific dollar amount to lose, and leave at that point, every time.   that is like saying i am only going to pay X amount for milk. you may pay that amount each time, but you come home with less, each time. 

[chattycattty]

FloridaPhil is 100% correct. Being skillful and knowing what to hold will improve your chances and you can play a little longer if you play with the proper paytables but you are not going to win unless you get lucky with a couple of huge premium hands regardless of the game you play. If you are playing DDB for instance you are going to lose unless you hit significantly more 4oak's than 1 every 423 and you better hope that some of them are premium 4oak's or that you get a royal. That is just the way it is. Nothing can change that fact. You can jump up and down and stomp and scream that the machines are rigged but it will not do you any good.

[notes1]

FloridaPhil is 100% correct. Being skillful and knowing what to hold will improve your chances and you can play a little longer if you play with the proper paytables but you are not going to win unless you get lucky with a couple of huge premium hands regardless of the game you play. If you are playing DDB for instance you are going to lose unless you hit significantly more 4oak's than 1 every 423 and you better hope that some of them are premium 4oak's or that you get a royal. That is just the way it is. Nothing can change that fact. You can jump up and down and stomp and scream that the machines are rigged but it will not do you any good.
  if you are referring to my post, please show me where i mentioned anything about the machines being rigged or stomped up and down. and, where did i say anthing about WINNING. my comment was strictly about losing more per hour with reduced paytables.  anyone who has played VP for any time at all, is absolutely aware that to come away a winner requires hitting premium hands. i and many others have made that point often. 

[chattycattty]

No I am not referring to you notes. I am simply pointing out that video poker is an easy game to learn the strategy on. If you can walk and chew bubblegum at the same time you can learn to play video poker with few if any mistakes. Being fortunate to be dealt a big first hand or pull a rabbit out of the hat on the redeal is going to determine whether you win or lose at the casino. I would rather be lucky on a 90% EV machine than have the satisfaction of playing flawlessly on a 100% EV machine with less than average 4oak's and premium hands. That is all I am trying to say. No offense intended towards you or anyone else.

[notes1]

chatty, appreciate you clearing that up. i agree 100% that premium hands are available on any machine and everyone would like to get those hands. getting premium hands largely determines whether one wins or loses. this had been my exact point of view for years. one is unlikely to go home a winner, based on FH or flushes.  what i am talking about is not winning, but losing and losing bigger. i do not know the exact number, but if in a typical hour of play, one were to get 20, 30 or 40 FH and/or flushes, that could be an additional loss of up to 200 credits per hour. play 10 hours and you could be looking at up to 2000 credits. and, that is if one goes from 9/6 to 8/5. if the machine was a 7/5, it would be even a greater loss.  that 5 or 10 credit difference does not seem like a lot, but it adds up over time.

[chattycattty]

I like to find the best pay tables possible and get as many full houses and flushes as well but that will only take you so far. On our recent trip to Lake Tahoe my friend and I sat side by side playing 5 play ddb quarter ultimate X. During the session there was a time when within 5 minutes of each other he hit 4 aces once and a royal once each time only holding one ace. He did not have a multiplier either time but you got to agree that is pretty friggin lucky. I don't think I have ever in my life hit a royal holding only one ace. I can remember doing it twice holding only one jack and another time holding only one king. I have hit 4 aces quite a few times holding only one ace but in the grander scheme of things not that often. All any of us can do is put it out there, set loss limits, play optimal strategy, and hope we are in the right place at the right time when the big hands come along.

[FloridaPhil]

Like ChattyCattty, I always seek out the best paying machines I can find.  However, I realize that even though the machine has better odds there is no guarantee I will win more. I've won big on terrible paying machines and lost big on near 100% machines.  Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in this game.