Money Management

[rolanddude]

Shadow,In ARTT the progression is one hand at $1, if you lose...one hand at $2, ...if you lose, one hand at $5,  if you lose then one hand at $10,  if you lose then remain at $10 BP until 200 credits are lost or you win enough to return to the $1 level.  If you lose you go to TBP for 800 credits or win enough to return to $1.Rob's stated goal of $2500 per session only applies to his Single Play Strategy which is what he plays professionally with 400 credits at each denom from $2 all the way up to $25 ($100 if he is down for the year).  I really don't think that you are up on some of his strategies.  Your mind is clouded with figures that are confusing the issue.  You can play ARTT with any win goal at any denom ( you want a machine that offers at least 3 denominations for the games BP & TBP, although four denoms is better as you understand because of the probability of hitting at least two pair on BP is greater> than hitting only on a three denom progression.)  So if you wanted to risk $500...start at .05 BP then .10, .25, and .50 for up to 200 credits (that is the first $100)  Then play TBP for up to 800 credits @.50/hand.   Lose it all?  Then lick your wounds and play again tomorrow...you're down $500 not like some of his other games where he risks from 12500 to 26000k.Hope this helps...

[rolanddude]

cddenver,I'm new to posting here and don't know how to keep up...I've unleashed a firestorm.The analogy thing with the phone...I wasn't being mathematical in my deduction of the similarities of phones and vp machine's game choices.  You guys really are a different breed when it comes to analyzing everything said to have a literal meaning as it applies to the vp world to which you dwell....hehe...oh enough being serious.  Do you get the point that I was trying to make?  Things change....as they do....adapt.  Math I know does not change but choices do.I do know that at the Rio and at Harrah's LV where I've played for 6 years that TBP was not to be found on the preferred type of multi-denom games (I need at least 4 denoms on the same machine to play)until last year.  It is still not on all of them even now. You're right, It was found on several machines though, just not the ones that fit ARTT criteria.  I can not talk in absolutes like everyone seems to expect from this gameroom and all info related,  but only as to where I have played.As for Rob's theory on tampering with the rng...I don't know why he feels this way,  I can't come out there yet to see for myself.  I do know that if he didn't believe it he would not have stuck his head out so far...  I will read about his findings when he is through with his test.  It does not happen more than expected on VPFW...

[rolanddude]

BTW  CDDenver,Your comment that seems to insinuate that his strategy does not work on real machines but works on a truly random pc should give you more reason to consider that if true...why?  Now I don't know if Rob started losing all of a sudden and realized something is different.  All I know is that I have won my sessions on the last two trips on "real" machines. (last July and November as the economy was starting to plunge)  But if his methods work on the pc (which has no stake in whether we win or lose) and not at the casino on real machines....Hmmmmm.  Might give me reason to pause if true.

[faygo]

Sound and Fury signifying nothing.  Shakespeare

[shadowman]

Shadow,

In ARTT the progression is one hand at $1, if you lose...one hand at $2, ...if you lose, one hand at $5,  if you lose then one hand at $10,  if you lose then remain at $10 BP until 200 credits are lost or you win enough to return to the $1 level.  If you lose you go to TBP for 800 credits or win enough to return to $1.

Rob's stated goal of $2500 per session only applies to his Single Play Strategy which is what he plays professionally with 400 credits at each denom from $2 all the way up to $25 ($100 if he is down for the year).  I really don't think that you are up on some of his strategies.  Your mind is clouded with figures that are confusing the issue.  You can play ARTT with any win goal at any denom ( you want a machine that offers at least 3 denominations for the games BP & TBP, although four denoms is better as you understand because of the probability of hitting at least two pair on BP is greater> than hitting only on a three denom progression.)  So if you wanted to risk $500...start at .05 BP then .10, .25, and .50 for up to 200 credits (that is the first $100)  Then play TBP for up to 800 credits @.50/hand.   Lose it all?  Then lick your wounds and play again tomorrow...you're down $500 not like some of his other games where he risks from 12500 to 26000k.

Hope this helps...



 
I'm only familiar with the single play strategy. After I looked at that and determined it was worthless I had little incentive to look at anything else. In any event, since all VP hands are independent, there is NO playing strategy that can change the expected return. Simple Math. From your description ARTT sounds just as worthless and time consuming with all the denom switches.
 
BTW, he risks a lot more than $26K in his single play strategy. At 5 levels starting at $1 he risks up to $57,500. IIRC, the average loss is between $40-50K.
 

[cddenver]

But if his methods work on the pc (which has no stake in whether we win or lose) and not at the casino on real machines....Hmmmmm.  Might give me reason to pause if true.

 
With negative return games and randomness, what confusion is there in the casino business about whether players are going to win or lose, over time?
 
Raising paytables and comps works much better with the theory of machine rigging - more people would go to casinos to play.  Much smarter thing for casinos to do in an economic downturn, with what would otherwise be a loss of normal business.  Get more people in the door, and THEN nail them with rigged machines.  But what's actually happening over time are lower paytables and comps.  Adding illegal machine rigging in the latter case just doesn't make sense.
 
If Rob's strategies work on a PC program then they would work on a real machine operating randomly and he could sell his information on that basis.  Nothing difficult to understand about that.
 
 
 
 
 

[cddenver]

Sound and Fury signifying nothing.  Shakespeare
 
Too deep for me.  You'll have to explain that one to me in a PM. 
 
P.S.  The hug guy at the end of your post looks kind of squishy.  How did you do that?

[rolanddude]

cddenver,I totally agree with you about that if they would make the games more attractive to play more people would play.  But the casinos have not figured that philosophy out yet.  Kinda similar to if the govt would lower my business taxes I could hire more people then that in turn would create more tax rev.  Simple concept...Your right.

[New2vp]

I do know that at the Rio and at Harrah's LV where I've played for 6 years that TBP was not to be found on the preferred type of multi-denom games (I need at least 4 denoms on the same machine to play)until last year.  It is still not on all of them even now. You're right, It was found on several machines though, just not the ones that fit ARTT criteria.  I can not talk in absolutes like everyone seems to expect from this gameroom and all info related,  but only as to where I have played.
Hey Roland J. Carter, Welcome to the forum.Wow, that's a lot of defense for RS today!  I for one would never accuse you of being another alias because I read that he never uses aliases and I believe most of what I read.  It's so much easier than actually thinking and figuring things out for yourself.You sure do seem to know a lot about RS and how he thinks.  It is almost like he is right there with you when you're typing.  You must have had terrible luck being an AP player for 6 years, only playing 100+% machines and never winning.  Isn't it ironic that it took that some amount of time for our hero to figure that ap was not where it was at.And it must have been terribly frustrating for you these last 10 months being a member and reading all the non-believer material posted throughout this forum.  Imagine 10 months and no posts and now 10 posts in 9 hours, 9 of them in defense of RS.  RS certainly had his backers here, that is backer-singular here in scorpio; but now that he's gone it is great that you showed up just in time.  And unlike scorpio, you know how to capitalize a few words and that a space usually follows a comma.  It's too bad we could never get the two of you posting at the same time.  But at least you were able to follow up in the threads that scorpio used to post in.You must have been thinking about RS's mode of play for a long time while you were an advanatage player.  From the quote above, you seem to have knowledge that at Rio and at Harrah's LV, where you've played for 6 years that TBP was not to be found on the preferred type of multi-denom games where you needed at least 4 denoms on the same machine to play.  Since you just started working with RS a year ago, it is amazing that you would notice and retain that type of information that is useless for an advantage player who cares only about a machine's long-run EV.  It's almost like you were channeling Rob, even then.  Wow, fact is sometimes stranger than fiction!I wish you the best of luck and I look forward to your future posts, especially those that contain reinforcement of the ideas that I can read about elsewhere on the net when I learn about undeniable truths that most everyone that understands math cannot seem to grasp.Imagine that, I always knew that those people who had all the answers in math class must really not know what they were talking about.  Life seems a lot fairer now that I can see that methods used by those who scored lower on tests are better than those who scored higher on the same tests!I also look forward to you letting us know about all those special plays that you were able to pick up in your hour session (or was it two?) with RS.  That would be valuable information.  Imagine learning all about those plays in a single session when they are not available elsewhere all in one place.  You must have a very quick mind to remember them all without them being written down anywhere!Well, continued best of luck!

[damule]

cddenver,

I totally agree with you about that if they would make the games more attractive to play more people would play.  But the casinos have not figured that philosophy out yet.  Kinda similar to if the govt would lower my business taxes I could hire more people then that in turn would create more tax rev.  Simple concept...

Your right.

 
     Rolanddude, welcome to the forum and I appreciate your intelligent insights. However, if you read your posts or anything RS advocates with his systems, they are merely progressive martingales destined to lose huge dollar amounts when they don't work. Although, the number of winning sessions may surpass the number of losing sessions; the dollar amount lost will surely surpass the dollar amount won substancially.
 
     Also to address what I've quoted, in all due respect: YOU'RE NUTS IF YOU THINK THE CASINO INDUSTRY EXECUTIVES HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT THE PHILOSOPHY OF MARKETING THEIR PRODUCT!!! If the casino execs were running the government, we wouldn't be talking about stimulus bills, there'd be little to no government debt. They're alot smarter than you're giving them credit for. Vegas always survives, no matter what the economic fate of the rest of the world. In a decade we'll be looking back at these days and saying, 'WOW, Vegas really knew what she was doing in the recession.' AND it'll be done without illegally changing games or payouts, it'll be done the right way.