Right or wrong move?

[FloridaPhil]

Here you go.  Have fun...  

[alpax]

Thanks Phil for hosting the content again. I can tell it took so much time to make it.The most expensive part is not hosting of the content, but having a custom dot com domain is.

[FAA]

What is the main difference in DW vs JOB while playing Cheap Strategy? You remarked on this once, I vaguely recall. 

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]What is the main difference in DW vs JOB while playing Cheap Strategy?[/quote]While I was developing the Cheap Strategy, I tried it with all the common video poker games and it seems to work best with single line traditional DW.  I don't recommend using the Cheap Strategy with JOB because the only real jackpot is a royal flush and it's so rare that it's not worth the savings if you hit one at single coin.  The difference in DW is the 1000 coin quad deuce mini jackpot.  I never concern myself too much with royals because of their rarity.  Quad deuces on the other hand happen on average about once every 5,000 hands.   If I'm going to play max coin quarter DW all day, the best that can happen other than a royal flush is that I hit one for $250.  I may hit multiple quad deuces, but it will normally cost me a lot of money to see that happen.  If I hit a max coin dollar quad deuce it's the same money as a JOB quarter royal and 8 times more common. A lot of good things happen when you play with the Cheap Strategy.   For one, you can play longer with less money because 80% of your hands are at single coin. Second, even if you don't hit a royal or a quad deuce you frequently catch back up with a max coin 5-of-kind or wild royal.  Third, It is not uncommon to make the jump to dollars and any good hit at that level will make you money.   The most common big jackpot for me is a $1,000 quad deuce and I've hit more of them while playing the Cheap Strategy than I have ever hit max coin royal flushes.  Forth, if you hit a max coin royal flush at the $1 level you win $4,0000.  This is a huge jackpot for a quarter player and will keep you in the game for a very long time.  To keep from getting sidetracked, remind yourself that any win is a win and welcome single coin jackpots along with all the rest.  If it helps you to stay focused, remember that two max coin dollar wild royals pay the same as one max coin quarter quad deuce.This is not an easy system to gain confidence in after just a few hands.  It worked for me early on because I hate losing money so much that I was willing to try anything to keep that from happening.  Gamblers are optimistic and always think they are going to hit a royal flush on the next hand until they walk out of the casino broke again.   Many so called experts and experienced players will say the Cheap Strategy is garbage without ever trying it.  I know differently and I do not claim to be an expert on anything except my on own bankroll.  The only real negative I have been able to find is that you won't be getting a lot of comps when you play this way.  The good news is that you will keep more of your winnings and will be able to pay for your own lunches. Note: The Cheap Video Poker Strategy was developed to combat the adverse effects of a seriously negative
expectation video poker game.  The closer you get to a 100% game
including comps,  the less effective it becomes.  

[FAA]

Thanks for the detailed reply. It's tough to adjust to a pay table where the lowest win is three of a kind. I'll put in some practice time. Then I'll print the WOO strategy suggestions for 0-4 deuces. That detailed hierarchy can keep even a novice on track, albeit at a snail's pace. I reckon that I'll become a believer after my first quad deuce. Max coin $1 level JOB RF is also $4000. At least that number will be familiar atop the pay table. I hate to abandon my routine. If I hit the casino without practice, I will either go bust or revert to JOB, where dollar play has a great chance of busting me too. The machines I use are fixed, either quarter or dollar/two dollar/five dollar. I'd like to toggle between quarter and dollar JOB without leaving my seat. I have seen the multidenoms of course, but I have to do some scouting leg work to find the area. All in all, it's a bit of a project. But I love the oasis of the mini jackpot. My biggest quad hit was $75 last week, and I barely profited from the machine. I'd love to triple that figure. Your $15,000 worth of jackpots is plenty of photographic evidence for me. I didn't consider JOB a seriously negative expectation game. But going bust multiple times is res ipsa loquitur. 0.46% is a massive casino edge. Some days you might as well be playing slots.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]I didn't consider JOB a seriously negative expectation game.[/quote]The most common quarter JOB game we see outside of Vegas is 8/5 which is a 97% game at max coins and no progressive.  7/5 is a 96% game.  I consider any video poker game to be seriously negative if it's under 98% at max coins.  If I could play 9/6 quarter JOB (99.5%)with comps, I would do so at max coins. Note: Just because JOB has a low variance, doesn't mean you can't lose money playing it. 

[onemoretry]

. 0.46% is a massive casino edge. Some days you might as well be playing slots.
And, if you multiply that "massive" casino edge by slightly more than 3.5, you get the even more massive edge the casino enjoys when you play less than full coin.

[alpax]

[QUOTE=FAA]
. 0.46% is a massive casino edge. Some days you might as well be playing slots.
And, if you multiply that "massive" casino edge by slightly more than 3.5, you get the even more massive edge the casino enjoys when you play less than full coin. [/QUOTE]

We are well aware of your disdain with less than full coin play and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; but to Phil's credit, he did state that he would play 9/6 JoB for quarters at max coin AND that the strategy becomes less and less effective when it approaches near 100% return with comps considered.

You also can multiply the massive edge by 4 if you switch from quarters to dollar denomination without any change in strategy, which is what I am doing. I do ask myself if the additional comps will still be worth it.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=onemoretry]And, if you multiply that "massive" casino edge by slightly more than
3.5, you get the even more massive edge the casino enjoys when you play
less than full coin[/quote]This is what the math says, but in reality it doesn't always happen that way.  In order for the math to work the values must be constant.  Varying your bet constantly changes the playing field to a point where the odds are much less important.  For example when you are playing a 98% video poker machine at single coin, you are reducing your odds to about 96%.  If you play with the Cheap Strategy and switch to dollars on a $25 run up and hit a max coin $1 quad deuce for $1,000 (been there done that), you just won 4,000 quarters and can keep it if you go back to starting with single coin instead of staying at max coin $1s and giving it back. Trying to put math to a video poker game where the bet changes on each hand is impossible.  The odds are constant, but the results are far from it. There are now $16,500 worth of jackpots posted on the website.   I have nothing to sell you and I don't care if you play my way or not. I just want you to know that there is a real alternative to feeding the machines and waiting for the math to take all your money.If you are going to try the Cheap Strategy, keep in mind that this strategy is a long term commitment and could actually cost you money on any one given day.   The whole idea of the Cheap Strategy is to limit your loses on 90% of your hands so you can keep your rare max coin jackpots. It is a better financial decision on a seriously negative expectation video poker game to limit your loses than to worry about what jackpots you may miss.  I think even Bob Dancer would agree with this statement.  Gamblers only want to remember their wins and never want to address how much they lost between them.  To win long term playing a negative expectation video poker game, you must control your losses so you can keep your max coin wins.  This is what the Cheap Strategy does.

[FAA]

If I could play 9/6 quarter JOB (99.5%)with comps, I would do so at max coins.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------That sounds like a rock solid endorsement to me! You have a great take on this stuff. I have plenty of 9/6 quarter access. I should be sitting pretty. But no, I tempt fate by spurning those for the dollar 9/5 and 9/6 machines at min bet, where the losing seems to have taken up permanent residence, regardless of casino! I needed a damn $75 quad on a 9/5 to pull my bankroll out of the fire on the first, but my luck did not travel well. I busted on two 9/6s.  If I limit myself to quarter JOB, I am definitely preserving bankroll, based on last week's misadventures. I do max coin on quarters very sparingly to begin with. My average bet would probably work out to seventy cents. So Cheap Strategy is fine by me. The locations within each casino leave much to be desired, but I will have to grin and bear it.  At most ten one dollar hands on my way home, ten minutes before catching my ride.