How to prove my 76% "DUD" Rate

[DaBurglar]

I returned home from AC a few days ago but I was not able to post for a variety of reasons, but now I am recovered and ready to share and respond again.... First, before i left AC last weekend I had a 20 minute conversation with a casino manager at Trump (plaza).....I asked several questions about VP and how it works in AC versus Vegas and elsewhere....what this guy told me I am still in partial disbelief and I do not want to spill the beans until I can have someone else verify.  But for now I will say this:   VP in AC is NOT the same as in Nevada casinos, and furthermore, as for myself, I am NEVER going back there exclusively to play VP again, my crappy results of the past year or so are simply the tip of the iceberg behind this decision. But as regards Harrahs in AC, I think it is totally interesting and even expected that people report success from there, since anyone I know who has won lately in AC has played either at Borgata and Harrahs, and for myself, the place in AC I almost NEVER EVER played at was over in the marina area, where harrahs and Borgata reside....I prefered to simply wheel up and down the boardwalk, where all the struggling casinos are and where I met with disaster.   It is not surprising that Borgata and Harrahs are in fact numbers 1 and 2 in AC in terms of revenue and profit, the only two casinos right now considered "successful" in AC. There is a reason for this....... I am going to play in the Borgata summer poker open in June (4 thru 7) and while I do not plan on playing a lot of VP, if I do dabble in it it will only be at one of these two places. In the meantime, i am seeking a similar conversation with another Casinos exec that I enjoyed with the trump dude, and I also got the name, email and phone number of a reporter with the Press of Atlantic City who has covered the casinos for a long time and knows all the ins and outs and secrets and scandals.....Donald Wittkowski.   I was told to talk to him as well since he knows quite a bit about how NJ gaming regs are defined, enforced and (in some cases) ignored......

[onemoretry]

First, before i left AC last weekend I had a 20 minute conversation with a casino manager at Trump (plaza).....I asked several questions about VP and how it works in AC versus Vegas and elsewhere....what this guy told me I am still in partial disbelief and I do not want to spill the beans until I can have someone else verify. 

I am sure there are a lot of people who would like to know exactly what he said.

Hopefully, you will be in a position in the very near future to tell us.

[DaBurglar]

Yeah well it behooves me to find someone else to corroborate what this guy said because, even in my own theory with my crappy results I did not know things work the way they do in AC, I started playing in AC four years ago and I had (wrongly) assumed VP worked essentially the same in AC as it did in Vegas, Reno and elsewhere......if you read the NJ regs, its apparent somethings are different, but just what EXACTLY is different is not apparent, and I think they want it that way.... You have to remember, as this guy explained to me, Gambling in Nevada is the states ECONOMY, its LIFE....whereas in New Jersey (and elsewhere) it is simply a TAX generator, one aspect of a much broader and complex economy.....if you meditate on what that means you can probably figure out some of the difference right there! But before the Human Lie detector Shadowman and a few others start getting their undergarments in a twist, I need to find one or two more people to explain to me what this guy explained.....but I already gave a good hint regardless in saying VP is not the same, but then again I think we all knew that already.  

[sam434343]

Good idea Daburglar, atleast this might put your mind to rest and few other people(me) waiting to hear your information, I hope there greatful for all your effort?I have my Foxwoods trip under stories. Sam

[BillyJoe]

Burglar, I just made arrangements to be in Caesars AC in August, Maybe we can set a date/time, and I will buy you a snow cone on the boardwalk.
 
I will try to be conscious of any 'dud rate' streak that I encounter when I am there.

[doris13]

burglar,i always do well playing at ballys.i stay at caesars and play most of my vp next door.

[DaBurglar]

Burglar, I just made arrangements to be in Caesars AC in August, Maybe we can set a date/time, and I will buy you a snow cone on the boardwalk.
 
I will try to be conscious of any 'dud rate' streak that I encounter when I am there.
  That is definitely a GO billyjoe!   Seriously, keep me informed of your plans, at this point, I can most assuredly say I will be AVAILABLE to hit AC in August starting on or after August 12, so if you have any ability and desire to do so, try and schedule your visit/trip on or after August 12, but even if you show up between August 1 thru 11, I will still try very hard to be there at least one day then, we'll see!   I hope you can provide to everyone else here (especially all the people who insinuate I am irrational, a crappy player and even .....*gasp*....*shock*....*wheeze*  DISHONEST) that I am in fact none of the aforementioned but just the opposite.   DORIS:   Thats great that you win at Ballys, but can you be a little more specific and detailed?  How do you know or establish that?  what do you play and how much/how often?   I only ask for the benfit of people Like shadowman, et al who claim such "anecdotal" statements are pointless and without merit, a view which I dont agree with and I find grating and offensive.   I myself have had below avergae results at Ballys AC, and the bank of 6 Bonus Poker machines in the wild west casino near Gold Tooth Gerties I strongly suspect are programmed to return less than 90% to players, which is allowed under AC's nebulous gamimg regs classifying Video Poker machines as simply another type of "Slots" and subject to a LEGALLY Valid broad range of possible returns (anywhere from 88% up to 99%.....since in NJ it is ILLEGAL to have any machine that returns 100% or more to players!)

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]Burglar, I just made arrangements to be in Caesars AC in August, Maybe we can set a date/time, and I will buy you a snow cone on the boardwalk.
 
I will try to be conscious of any 'dud rate' streak that I encounter when I am there.  
That is definitely a GO billyjoe!   Seriously, keep me informed of your plans, at this point, I can most assuredly say I will be AVAILABLE to hit AC in August starting on or after August 12, so if you have any ability and desire to do so, try and schedule your visit/trip on or after August 12, but even if you show up between August 1 thru 11, I will still try very hard to be there at least one day then, we'll see!   I hope you can provide to everyone else here (especially all the people who insinuate I am irrational, a crappy player and even .....*gasp*....*shock*....*wheeze*  DISHONEST) that I am in fact none of the aforementioned but just the opposite.[/QUOTE]
Burglar, at this point in time, Monday August 12th would be a good day for me. As we get closer in, tell me a good meeting time, and I will go out to the Boardwalk in front of Caesars, where I am staying, and seek you out in your chair.

[doris13]

burglar i play quarter triple poker,not the progressive,on the main floor near the goldfish nickel slots.i always manage to come out at least $200 ahead.

[ko king]

I returned home from AC a few days ago but I was not able to post for a variety of reasons, but now I am recovered and ready to share and respond again....
 
First, before i left AC last weekend I had a 20 minute conversation with a casino manager at Trump (plaza).....I asked several questions about VP and how it works in AC versus Vegas and elsewhere....what this guy told me I am still in partial disbelief and I do not want to spill the beans until I can have someone else verify.  But for now I will say this:   VP in AC is NOT the same as in Nevada casinos, and furthermore, as for myself, I am NEVER going back there exclusively to play VP again, my crappy results of the past year or so are simply the tip of the iceberg behind this decision.
 
But as regards Harrahs in AC, I think it is totally interesting and even expected that people report success from there, since anyone I know who has won lately in AC has played either at Borgata and Harrahs, and for myself, the place in AC I almost NEVER EVER played at was over in the marina area, where harrahs and Borgata reside....I prefered to simply wheel up and down the boardwalk, where all the struggling casinos are and where I met with disaster.   It is not surprising that Borgata and Harrahs are in fact numbers 1 and 2 in AC in terms of revenue and profit, the only two casinos right now considered "successful" in AC.
 
There is a reason for this.......
 
I am going to play in the Borgata summer poker open in June (4 thru 7) and while I do not plan on playing a lot of VP, if I do dabble in it it will only be at one of these two places.
 
In the meantime, i am seeking a similar conversation with another Casinos exec that I enjoyed with the trump dude, and I also got the name, email and phone number of a reporter with the Press of Atlantic City who has covered the casinos for a long time and knows all the ins and outs and secrets and scandals.....Donald Wittkowski.   I was told to talk to him as well since he knows quite a bit about how NJ gaming regs are defined, enforced and (in some cases) ignored......

I was in a similar situation a few years back and I pushed to get answers, spent a lot of time getting jerked around by different people who held different positions at the casino. I had very good records that were backed up with 3 years worth of win/loss statements all playing single line DDB vp with a advertised payback percentage of 98.98%. I broke down each year's results which were almost completely identical (95.2% actual payback percentage), pointed out the missing hands (all the quads), I had even identified how and why the event happened. Basicly I knew where the holes were and what created them. I thought I had them nailed having identified a hand that should occur on average 1 in every 36 hands and converted slightly below 20% of the time. The hand in question actually happened 1.83  more times than the average. In other words I was seeing this hand occur 44 times per hour on average vs. the expected 24 per hour. When I confronted them with my results they were very nice and actually said they ran test and all the machines except for a couple were operating within the curve of a minimum of 82% and 99.99% payback. Even though I had been told by several casino employees that the vp was standard Class III when I pushed the person in charge to back that claim up he would only use the word "comparable" to that of Vegas style vp.  I recieved a somewhat thuggish and threatening response after questioning what "comparable" meant and took their advice to drop the whole thing and play elsewhere.