IS THIS TRUE?

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar I would not start a thread trying to prove that 2+2=7 because that would be dumb. You came onto this forum selling your theory that something was amiss with video poker in Atlantic City and this was possibly caused by casinos manipulating a video poker machine's RNG, or whatever, to their benefit. When I and other people told you that manipulating an RNG was not possible you then switched gears and said that you assumed video poker in Atlantic City was the same as video poker in Nevada.    You are the one who is claiming that video poker in Atlantic City ir rigged, not me. Hence I do not have to prove anything but because YOU made the claim, then; it is your responsibility to prove it. You continue to rerun the loop of information regarding the Tennessee Ave office etc. because you have nothing else to stand on to make your arguement that video poker in Atlantic City is rigged. When another poster here had some luck in Atlantic City you downplayed it by saying that: "you can't lose them all." Several other people here, besides roveer, have had wins in Atlantic City too. I chaulk it up to you being either: a disgruntled loser; or, a bad video poker player.Pick and choose, twist, distort distract......its funny what you choose to remember about what I post and what you choose to toss aside and forget.Never said RNGs are manipulated, i clearly spelled out how the RESULTS of an RNG can be manipulated into the final RESULT that we players experience.     But you are wrong to say it is NOT possible....of course its possible.Who cares if some people have had "some luck" in AC......I've hit a few hands over the years....that was not my point at all......aghhhh you are either deliberately dense in order to obfuscate the discussion or you are an idiot, and I personally do not think you are an idiot because if you were you would have found some other way to vent your frustrations than harrassing me on this forum.     A long time ago I made it clear that if AC video poker operates the way I conclude it does, there will obviously still be winning hands.    "You cant lose em all" was meant to be more humorous than anything else.....thanks for sucking what little bit a fun was left in this forum....you are about as much fun as root canalAND I AM 100% certain that, all along during my time here posting, I made it clear that I had approached AC video poker with the assumption it worked very closely with Nevada......no "gears" were involved.     And this is still the heart of the issue, because I ALSO clearly stated and maintained all along that I believe Nevada/Vegas video poker to be exactly what we expect (and my "FACTS" supported this in my play results from Vegas over the years.)      But I would never go so far as to say that there never is or never was a video poker machine in Nevada that fails to comply with regs.   I remain open to the possibilities.

[BillyJoe]

I am not a lawyer, but I believe what you are saying, SPX,  would still violate at least Nevada's gaming regs. I believe  the regs state that the outcome of the game has to be similar to a game dealt from a standard deck of shuffled cards.

[DaBurglar]

From my experience the past couple of years and especially noticeable this year (I play around 1 million hands a year at the $1 level) to me I am seeing way less ending premium hands. I keep pinpoint records and what the data tells me is the mid level hands (250 credits) are out placing the upper tier hands (400/800) by almost 3 to 1. It not uncommon for me to get 8's or 10's 3 or 4 times in an 8 hour session. But this does not happen with Aces/800's.

UNLESS it is dealt... when I look at my dealt quads they match up pretty evenly in numbers across the board. It is after the deal that the variance is most noticeable for premium hands.

So for me I think that the RNG is accurate for the deal to satisfy the Gaming Regulations. Beyond that I believe the program has input on how to complete the hands based on a payback% exactly the way a slot machine handles it. This would not violate regulations and it would not be considered cheating. It would just give control to casinos beyond a paytables payback % to guarantee a certain expected revenue. Where in the old days the machine would just disappear if the RNG landed on the negative side for an extended period of time.

Now with the new chips they have more control without breaking any regulations. An older style machine may hit 4 Royals in 4 days as the deal and draw where random. The payback % is irrelevant because how many hands would determine a cycle? More than the machine is played in years probably. These new chips the casino knows exactly what is going in and out based on which chip they order because its not coming out unless somebody else has already put it in somewhere down the line. Just like a slot machine.

Remember just because there are 5 numbers on the wheel does not mean you have a 1 in 5 chance to pull a 5. Because the table that the numbers get pulled are weighted:

1 - occurs 80
2 - occurs 10
3 - occurs 5
4 - occurs 3
5 = occurs 1

So while it looks like you have a 1 in 5 chance to pull a 5. Really you only have a 1 in 100 chance and a 80/100 to get a 1.


I am embarrassed to admit this, but spxchrome just somehow was able to summarize  what I believe has been going on in AC video poker.   My compliments for nailing it so succinctly and clearly.    Based on my own experiences and findings, in my opinion and conclusion, in Atlantic City, I agree with this description of how things workI also agree with Billyjoe in his statement that, IN NEVADA, this will not fly.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar again you miss the point regarding the manipulation of the RNG. As spelled out in the New Jersey Gaming Regulations and posted here many times was information that the results of an RNG CANNOT be manipulated/pulled/twisted/distorted/repackaged/regurgitated/altered/adjusted/converted/renovated/reshaped/redone/refitted/retailored/modified/transformed/ammended/diluted/updated, or just plain changed in any way.    As for fun; I'm the original Mr. Fun.

[chattycattty]

DaBurglar, you ignored my post earlier in this thread. I do not have an axe to grind with you. I think you are the victim of your own self fulfilling prophesy. The deeper you dig into your self perceived negativity in regards to video poker at Atlantic City, the harder it is going to be for you to come out of it.

As other people have mentioned, you have an opinion but you do not have any proof to your primary claim. What do you hope to accomplish with your rants towards video poker in AC?

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar again you miss the point regarding the manipulation of the RNG. As spelled out in the New Jersey Gaming Regulations and posted here many times was information that the results of an RNG CANNOT be manipulated/pulled/twisted/distorted/repackaged/regurgitated/altered/adjusted/converted/renovated/reshaped/redone/refitted/retailored/modified/transformed/ammended/diluted/updated, or just plain changed in any way.    As for fun; I'm the original Mr. Fun.Your inability to properly interpret written material is your problem, as is your lack of understanding of how computer games work.    What is "the results" of an RNG?     What happens to them?   If you answer these two questions, we'll continue this pointless debate, otherwise what I said before about deliberately obtuse versus naturally obtuse kicks in......

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar, you ignored my post earlier in this thread. I do not have an axe to grind with you. I think you are the victim of your own self fulfilling prophesy. The deeper you dig into your self perceived negativity in regards to video poker at Atlantic City, the harder it is going to be for you to come out of it.

As other people have mentioned, you have an opinion but you do not have any proof to your primary claim. What do you hope to accomplish with your rants towards video poker in AC? Ignore?   I didnt ignore it, I read it, I get it....I did not know you wanted a response to it.   If you want to expand on your points, by all means please do so.....I found it amazing when you said you had the same experience in AC as Vegas, but if you were only in AC twice thats not that much to base it on.    All my posts are based on 5 years of AC visits, with trips avergaing once a month for about 5-7 days a trip....add that up and its between 300-400 days total in AC.....as stated before my overall hand count is over 1.5 million hands (which is probably low)    Sure, positive attitude is a nice thing to have, and if you ever met me you'd see how unneccessary it would be to tell me this, but as for video poker in AC, I tend to agree with olds442, that the results the machine spits out are not impacted in any way by whether or not I am happy or sad or smiling or giving it the finger.......I know cuz I tried everything.    Ac video poker deals absurd number of zero value hands and the return percentage on many machines is in the low 80s or worse.     My rants?   First off, I do not call them rants but I can see how you might view them as such.....as to their purpose, I have stated it many times:   aside from sharing what I myself have experienced, I am hoping that someone somewhere will come along with the "PROOF" you mentioned and prove me wrong.....I dont see how that can happen but I am waiting.

[chattycattty]

I wish you well DB but I can't help but think you are your own worse enemy. I hope you find what you are looking for but the extremes you are going to justify your position make it impossible to simply enjoy the game of VP and perhaps turn things around for yourself. Sometimes overthinking and overanalyzing does more harm than good.

[Vman96]

I am not a lawyer, but I believe what you are saying, SPX,  would still violate at least Nevada's gaming regs. I believe  the regs state that the outcome of the game has to be similar to a game dealt from a standard deck of shuffled cards.

It definitely would violate Nevada's. It would also violate most other state gaming regulations as well. What he describes could definitely be programmed that way (they basically are for Class II games), but it would be illegal almost everywhere.

Now another question is would a gigantic gaming company like IGT dare to rig the machines just so they could sell a few more (remember video poker is dying, btw), even though it would be a gigantic backlash if they actually got caught and could hurt their even more lucrative slot business?

Really? Is that a YES to most of this forum? If so, you guys should just quit gambling if you think the biggest VP manufacturer in the world conspires with casinos in over a dozen states to break the states' own laws just so they can scrape an extra few percent profit from suckers tops. Because most of the profit is tied up in the slot machines where we don't have to have a silly "are slots from an equally likely symbol" argument because the answer is flippin' obvious.

So many tinfoil hats around here.

[yankees4ever31]

Here's my two cents:

I've been on the winning end and losing end of long streaks with VP. Winning percentages are based on an infinite number of hands. Eventually, the percentages will come true. Some sessions I'm up a thousand percent, some I'm down a thousand percent.

My point is to remember that Casinos weren't built by giving the player a guaranteed win. It's still gambling regardless of the payback percentages.

Why play if you're not enjoying yourself?

Royals to all,

yankees4ever31