Paytables mean NOTHING

[Vman96]

If DaBurglar's numbers are true, the machines are clearly rigged and he should stop playing immediately, or begin a legal crusade on behalf of the AC players that are being cheated by the state.

The numbers he claims are impossible at any paytable that pays any hand that is a pair of Jacks or better, there is no person in the history of video poker that has run that bad on an unrigged machine. Other than being rigged, or another reason I am going to bite my tongue on, the only other logical reason is that he is confusing the expected frequency of dealt winners vs. winners after the draw.

[sam434343]

Daburglar. LOL! Minored in Randomness! LOL! True this post is about paytables and we all know most are not good and even if they were better than 100% what your saying is there not rigged, but the way the state of AC has written there law on slot and VP they might be able to bend the rules in there favor and you might be right! I know if you get two lawyers involed one for both sides they both could win and think there right. All you have to do is look at some of the celebrity case in America where 95% people new the were as guilty as hell but they gaught off because of there lawyers was able to manipulate(there going to say they used the law to work in there favor) the case in his or her favor. So if you think something is amiss keep writing, there might be? and there might not be? But that is how you get to the bottom of it. Sam

[BillyJoe]

Burglar's 'Dead Hand" stat intrigued me, so just for giggles, I tracked 50 games of single line TDB on this site, and counted the losing (through the draw)  hands - 30 out of 50 (I got bored counting after 50 hands ). That would be 60%.
 
It means nothing with such a small sample, but finishing with more losing hands than winning hands would seem normal.  

[Tedlark]

  I keep going back to my original comment to DaBurglar regarding continuing to play in AC if things are really as bad as he imagines. Why would a person keep subjecting themselves to such torrment if the outcome isn't going to change? When I was a little tyke my mom once told me not to touch the stove because it was hot but yet I had to touch it once before I got the message. I never touched a hot stove again. When I drive down the street and I see a sign get put up that says: "Caution bridge out next 30 days" I don't drive down that same road everyday just to see if things changed, I wait until at least 30 days pass by.   
 
  You gotta take the good with the bad in life and you try to minimize the bad. If this means not playing in AC because things may be perceived to be askew, then save your money and get out to Las Vegas. Go to CT, how about the casinos in PA? WVA?
 
  I really, really don't understand DaBurglar.  

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar]For QUad Deuces benefit...I myself, in choosing "THE LEAST SMELLY" paytables typically try to play any 9/6 JOB or 8/5 Bonus machine I can find.  If I am at the AC club like I was this past weekend, I am SOL as almost ALL their machines are awful...HOW awful?  What were you playing?  What denomination?  How many lines?  How many games?  Are you really that embarrassed to come clean with exactly how bad the schedules are that you've been playing?We've all experienced crappy sessions, bro.  Rags, after rags, after rags, and the machine just takes the money.  500 credits to zero.  *poof*  Damn NSU machine at Red Rock took 600 from me yesterday in 55 minutes and 1800 in a couple hours a couple weeks ago.  Last Sunday it dealt me deuces and gave me another on the draw in the first 15 minutes.  It all works out.[/QUOTE]
  Embarrassed?   Come clean?  Jeeez ....   First off, SOL means "Sht out of luck" and since u clearly don't play in AC,  back off with the "embarrased" crap, I;ve been open about myself since day one, maybe too much so.....and second, we've all played paytables that suck for various reasons.   I'm playing in the AC CLUB (formerly the Hilton since u dont know what it is) in reference to this specific run of losing 500 real quick, I stated I normally try to play 9/6 JOB or 8/5 Bonus, but the AC CLub doesnt even have THAT!  The best they have is 8/5 JOB or 9/5 Double Bonus, and their dueces wild is 20/12/10/4/4  .....so I played a number of machines with those paytables in losing 500 VERY fast.  But I stated also in the post u quoted above that I found myself STAYING at the AC CLUB on a rare Friday/saturday  because of freebies:  rooms, comps, some giveaways and tournies, otherwise I would not be playing their machines, at least not to the point of losing 500,    BUT AGAIN, the ISSUE is the consistently high rate of duds that has nothing to do with the paytable.  

[DaBurglar]

If DaBurglar's numbers are true, the machines are clearly rigged and he should stop playing immediately, or begin a legal crusade on behalf of the AC players that are being cheated by the state.

The numbers he claims are impossible at any paytable that pays any hand that is a pair of Jacks or better, there is no person in the history of video poker that has run that bad on an unrigged machine. Other than being rigged, or another reason I am going to bite my tongue on, the only other logical reason is that he is confusing the expected frequency of dealt winners vs. winners after the draw.
 Not confusing anything.....it is as simple as it is frustrating,   basically, 75 out of 100 hands played on various 25 cent VP games in various AC Casinos results in NO RETURN (or "no value"  "Nothing"  "No Money")    We all agree that a NORMAL VP game would have around 55-60 percent duds, right?   60 out of 100 hands would yield NO money, and the other 40 or so hands would be a pair of JAcks or better (straights, flushes, 2 pair, quads  royals  etc etc)     I;ve been running over 75 percent for the last 6 months or so.....its that simple.   And I thought that, even though I have related this to the forum before, it has particular relevance in this thread given its title!     And Tedlark, aside from explaining why I continued to go to AC due to all the reasons i have mentioned already, I also persisted during this bad run because I refused to believe this would continue this bad,  I believed (or wanted to believe) this was just a exceptionally bad run and would just turn itself around and right itself evebtually.   cant you understand that?     You see, deep down, I am like the rest of you, I choose to believe that VP is by and large Legit despite my devils advocate role and despite what some friends and associates with inside knowledge claim to know about VP, so I chalk up my abysmal results to exceptionally bad luck and continue to plug away, always playing within my means.   But it hasnt changed, at least not for 6 months.  If you all do not believe me, then go to AC and first try the AC CLUB;s 60 or so machines (the upright ones, not the tabletops)  and record the dead hand rate.   see what u get

[Quad Deuces]

So DaBurglar is going to CONTINUE to claim something isn't right but CONTINUE to decline to provide any meaningful data to back it up.How many cocktails per hour do you consume while playing instead of keeping careful notes?  Is that part of the "value" playing in AC brings?[quote]If you don't believe me, go there and play crap pay schedules that return more than their fair share of duds![/quote]No, thanks anyway.[quote]We've all played paytables that sucked for various reasons.[/quote]Umm, no.  Not since I learned what the hell the game was about.  Sure I've played less than optimal paytables, but none that sucked.  We're talking 8/5 BP, 9/6 Jacks, 9/6 BPDLX, and 9/7 DB.  All over 99%.You are claiming that the machines produce results that are not in line with what is expected.  Prove it.  Otherwise, you're just another complainer on a losing streak.

[DaBurglar]

You have never read any of my posts before where i provide VERY detailed info, have you?    What else have I not provided here in THIS thread that you still need?  And  even if I do, what's your next play, call me a liar?    many posts in the past I have shared all I need to share regards my play, I only play 25 cent limit, single line games.   The issue here is DEAD hands, and it doesnt matter what the paytables are, how many lines, etc.  if the machine is just spitting out crap after crap, it ends there, everything else is moot.  And similarly, if I was playing a really HORRIBLE paytable (say like 7/5 JOB) but I kept getting flushes and trips and 2 pair, we wouldnt even be having this "conversation". What you are doing here is real simple, trying to divert the topic which I am now sharing my input and at the same time trying to further vex and po me by calling me "just another complainer".   At least shadowman keeps his malevolence and arrogance bottled up by ignoring me, why dont you try it if you dont have anything productive to share, But if you want to comment on what I have shared, what do you think of my 76% dud hand rate?   You said yourself you have had such sessions, but didnt provide anything more specific.....what were your longest streaks of futility?  Where did they occur?   How did you react or cope?   Why dont you respond on those points instead of trying to provoke and/or torment me?

[DaBurglar]

So DaBurglar is going to CONTINUE to claim something isn't right but CONTINUE to decline to provide any meaningful data to back it up.How many cocktails per hour do you consume while playing instead of keeping careful notes?  Is that part of the "value" playing in AC brings?I have not drank in years, which I stated many times before, as well as stating many times before I usually keep very detailed careful notes,  This past trip howver, I only tracked total hands and duds.[quote]If you don't believe me, go there and play crap pay schedules that return more than their fair share of duds![/quote][quote]No, thanks anyway.[/quote]Ok fine, but until you go to AC you don't have the right to criticize others observations and input about the place.  [quote]We've all played paytables that sucked for various reasons.[/quote][quote]Umm, no.  Not since I learned what the hell the game was about.  Sure I've played less than optimal paytables, but none that sucked.  We're talking 8/5 BP, 9/6 Jacks, 9/6 BPDLX, and 9/7 DB.  All over 99%.[/quote]In AC, AS I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES BEFORE (AS HAVE OTHER POSTERS HERE), there are very very few games even in the 99% range!   For those players stuck in other markets with crappy paytables, it often comes down to playing "THE LEAST SMELLY"....now what part of this CANT you understand?   Seriously, you are telling me that you cant see how a player MIGHT, once in a great while, play crappy paytables simply because he is at a casino that comped him all kinds of stuff and has giveaways and contests and other events?   I do NOT play shtty paytables as a rule either (just like you), but again, in this case, the paytable(s) were not the issue.   In previous threads, myself and OTHER posters talked about a few 9/6 JOB games in AC that also just dealt hand after hand of nothing.  So there....do you GET IT NOW QUAD DEUCES???[quote]You are claiming that the machines produce results that are not in line with what is expected.  Prove it.  Otherwise, you're just another complainer on a losing streak.

[/QUOTE]
 Prove it?   lmao rofl   

[DaBurglar]

One last thing, in response to Tedlark and anyone else who cannot understand why I play in AC even now after having had such terrible results:  (and note, even though tedlark "cannot understand" me, I dont have a problem with him or his posts or even his disdain for my posts about AC, I dont think he is being snotty or arrogant or just a plain d * ck when he posts)  My physical circumstances right now make it very difficult for me to travel long distances via airplane, whereas traveing by bus or van is much easier.  Since I currently reside in New England, flying to Vegas is extremely problematic and challenging for me right now....I am working on making arrangements to take a trip to Vegas by this September, where I hopefully will be able to stay there for at least a week and a half.   In the meantime, taking the Bus to AC is the easiest, least hassle-type thing I can do as far as getting to play VP in a established casinos market.   Traveling through airports in a wheelchair is a definite hassle, plus my actual physical health kinda neccesistates I be able to return home on a few hours notice. i did not want to share this part of my life, i had hoped the more intuitive and wise amongst you might just figure this out or conclude accordingly....but since some of you have seen fit to start hassling me about my game selection and questioning whether or not I "know what I am doing" if I allow myself to play in a place such as AC, then here is some more info as to "why".