hot /cold machines

[cddenver]

Cd,
I haven't seen any proof from Dick about his system or his results.  So these two schools of thought right now are on equal footing based on your own standards of observation. 
 
You keep forgetting that with any premise that flies in the face of conventional wisdom that the burden of proof is on he who puts forth the new premise.  I think my last post might have had too many words and sentences in it, so I'll summarize optimalf's posts in this thread in a simpler form.  Starting with AP:
 
Randomness --> Conventional Strategy --> Long Term Results.
 
The details in the two "-->"'s aren't too difficult to understand.  52 card deck, five card card, 2,598,960 combinations, E.V. for each combination. 
 
Now, optimalf's strategy (any unconventional strategy, really)
 
Unrandomness --> Unconventional Strategy --> Long Term Results
 
Let's see some details on the two "-->"'s.  Where's the beef?
 
Now, in my own case I have records of thousands of quads/SFs/RFs that I've actually hit in casinos.  Not only the absolute numbers that show I've hit what would be expected, but I track the rates at which I've hit them.  Actual casino results.  Guess what?  Life imitates art.  Real results match anticipated ones.

[rolanddude]

No, What is funny is continually making statements from "highly educated places" and then refusing to back them up with "Real World" scenarios in the world of playing VP. 
 
As to your reference to the #2...  I guess before "someone" invented that term since no other number existed.  And when they finally got them all named they realized that if you only needed part of any of them that we must invent a decimal point for guys like you who don't see the WHOLE picture just part of it.  But that is typical for those personality types that gravitate towards "engineering"  which means in short "concocting". 
 
A really good way to describe how perfect values are not preferable or suitable in the real world is to listen to a Computer playing back a music score that is input into it with note values and timing all placed perfectly on the sheet of music.  What you will hear is a very robotic version when you listen to it back.  Now when a skilled pianist plays the same score... it sounds nothing like what the computer simulates.  What is produced cannot be replicated with all the mathematics in the world.  So your statement that math is the foundation of reality is a little fuzzy to me.  Human Randomness is the foundation of Reality.  After all... WE INVENTED MATH OURSELVES to fill a need!!!  Thus, MATH cannot be the foundation of reality,  Independant human thinking IS. 
 
Now let's cut through the BULL SH*T and have YOU show this forum some REAL PROOF that your total reliance upon math is producing PROFIT as you claim it is...  You are being called out!

[cddenver]

Now when a skilled pianist plays the same score... it sounds nothing like what the computer simulates.  What is produced cannot be replicated with all the mathematics in the world. 
 
Huh?  Music is analog, VP is digital.

[rolanddude]

CD & Shadowman,
 
There is nothing that has been shown here to prove at ANY time in the history of this forum that you or anyone else here wins using Expert Play.  All we have are "Examples" like the one posted by you that claims that "mathematically this is true".  HOW ABOUT IN REALITY GENTS!!!  Prove that MATH works when playing VP.  If anyone should know it is someone like you Dick that plays virtually all the time.  Tell us the Criteria, specifically, for the game(s) you play and show us your results.  Even if you have to include the value of shampoo samples in your room to attain a profit, show us the money!...  Or else forever carry the label that I have put forward here that you are all hypocrits.
 
Oh, and by the way CD
 
Music is NOW digital.  Nothing you hear short of an acoustic instrument with no amplification is analog anymore.  All songwriters use digital programs to score their music now.  Everything you hear at a bar room or at a big concert goes through digital enhancers...  My God!!  This forum is REALLY technologically challenged... Wake up gang.  The world has changed!

[Eduardo]

LOL I love it. Prove to me that math works?
 
Sorry, but if you have a theory that mathematics has failed, the burden of proof is on you. Mathematics stands on its own and supports itself.
 
You have presented no evidence to suggest that a mathematical analysis of video poker is anything less than 100% accurate.

[faygo]

CD & Shadowman,
 
Oh, and by the way CD
 
Music is NOW digital.  Nothing you hear short of an acoustic instrument with no amplification is analog anymore.  All songwriters use digital programs to score their music now.  Everything you hear at a bar room or at a big concert goes through digital enhancers...  My God!!  This forum is REALLY technologically challenged... Wake up gang.  The world has changed!
 
Digital recording picks up the analog sounds from a microphone and  converts it to a digital form.  A digital audio signal must be converted back to analog form during playback before it is applied to a loud speaker or ear phones.

[cddenver]

CD & Shadowman,
 
There is nothing that has been shown here to prove at ANY time in the history of this forum that you or anyone else here wins using Expert Play.  
 

 
I think you've missed a few posts here and there.  FPDW, 10/7 DB, plus a few others close enough to 100% with near perfect play to expect better than breakeven if CB is included.
 
I'll send your statement back to you replacing the words "Expert Play" with "unconventional play".
 
You keep making positive statements about unconventional play supporting them only with negative statements about AP using the mathematics of AP.  Can unconventional play stand on its own two legs?  It can't be better just because it's different.  Let's hear some specifics from you or optimalf.  Preferably optimalf since he's said he has something new.  Personally I'd be interested in the part where unrandomness in the RNG is required for success.  Does that mean it wouldn't work as a table game with a shuffled deck every hand?
 

Oh, and by the way CD
 
Music is NOW digital.  Nothing you hear short of an acoustic instrument with no amplification is analog anymore.

 
I wasn't referring to recorded or amplified music.

[Eduardo]

Digital recording picks up the analog sounds from a microphone and  converts it to a digital form.  A digital audio signal must be converted back to analog form during playback before it is applied to a loud speaker or ear phones.
 

This was true a few years ago but is not always the case now. There are purely digital forms of recording instruments now but it will probably take some time for everything to move that way.

[shadowman]

The difference between digital and analog is really just a frame of reference. If you adhere to the theory of quantum physics then you should know that there exists a "smallest" entity of which the universe is constructed (strings). At that level you could think of the entire universe as digital. However, we have no way to access those small levels so we take large quantum collections and digitize them. For most people the sounds, etc. these quantum collections represent are still accurate to the degree our senses can discern.


 

[shadowman]

CD & Shadowman,
 
There is nothing that has been shown here to prove at ANY time in the history of this forum that you or anyone else here wins using Expert Play.  All we have are "Examples" like the one posted by you that claims that "mathematically this is true".  HOW ABOUT IN REALITY GENTS!!!  Prove that MATH works when playing VP.  If anyone should know it is someone like you Dick that plays virtually all the time.  Tell us the Criteria, specifically, for the game(s) you play and show us your results.  Even if you have to include the value of shampoo samples in your room to attain a profit, show us the money!...  Or else forever carry the label that I have put forward here that you are all hypocrits. 


 
It's very simple, RD. If the games are random then the math represents what a person will see. If the games are not random then the math is useless. There's no question the "math works" because it's just as simple as my tic-tac-toe example.
 
I notice you keep ignoring that little fact because it's so simple that everyone can see the truth. You are trying to obfuscate the truth so you ignore those inconvenient facts. While VP is a little more complex it uses EXACTLY the same fundamental mathematics and hence will work out the same.
 
Chess is essentially the same as well. It's just enough more complex than VP that it took many years for computer technology to finally be able to surpass human capabilities. At some time in the future it should be possible for a computer to analyze all possibilities and then two computers playing each other would be no different playing chess than playing tic-tac-toe. All games would end in a tie. That you would dispute these things is hilarious. Essentially, you are still claiming you can win at tic-tac-toe. Everyone knows that's a lie. It's as simple as that.
 
As for results, tell us what you would accept as "proof". Somehow I don't think you'll believe me if I give you all my specifics.