Payback vs. Comps

[Orracle]

Hey everyone -

My favorite place to play in the world is the bar at the Four Queens in Vegas. They have suited royal progressives on JoB games (low volatility) that often get juicy, especially on $1 denom because people play one credit to get drinks, raising the progressives but never claiming them.

Last year, I noticed my point countdown was bigger than normal. They changed the comp points to double play for a point at the bar.

While Four Queens still has a very good program (food, cash back, points for merch, free play ALL independent of each other).

MY QUESTION: The payback on these royals often has 3 over $5k and usually 1 or 2 over $6-7k. I have hit $6600 and $8700 in my days playing. Which is more important, the comp back or the potential to hit these high value games (still rare to hit)? At that denom, it gets spendy and playthrough is significant and the cut in points really hit my comp line.

[dinghy]

Which is more important, the comp back or the potential to hit these high value games (still rare to hit)?

The bar machines have been adjusted. Earn rate is now standard $8 per point, but some games were downgraded. Hopefully they left the suited royal pay schedules unchanged.

[BobDancer]

One thing you didn't mention was the pay schedule. At the 4Q, I believe these games start out at 8-5 Jacks or Better --- with the suited royals climbing.

The slot club is 0.3125% and the comps are 0.625%, plus they have mailers and promotions. (In July, for example, play $16,000 coin in and get $200 in free play. That's a 1.25% promotion --- plus with that much play you'll get a mailer.

Here are some numbers to keep in mind. At an average of $7,000 (meaning the four figures add up to $28,000), the return is 99.0%. Personally I would never play this game lower than this --- and it's rarely this high. But it is sometimes.

At an average of $8,000 for the royals (meaning the four figures add up to $32,000), the return is 99.6%

At an average of $9,000 (meaning the four figures add up to $36,000), the return is 100.2%

Memorize these three numbers and extrapolate. That is, if the actual sum of the royals is 33,450, you can extrapolate to about 99.7%.

From this figure, add in the slot club and the promotion. I personally don't add in the comps, but you can. We would never eat at Hugo's Cellars if it weren't for the comps, and our tip ends up being larger than we'd normally spend retail for dinner.

How much the mailers are is in flux right now. This month the mailers aren't so big, but they have a 1.25% promotion. Starting next month, the 4Q club is supposed to merge with that of Binions --- with one mailer per month even if you used to get two. No telling how that will flesh out percentage-wise.

Anyway, now you have the mathematical tools to answer your question easily.

[olds442jetaway]

My free play is about .0083. Not sure if this is anywhere the industry standard or not. 15,000 a week coin in for an average of 125 a week in free play.

[FAA]

My coin in is 10-20% of yours. Fortunately, the FP is 40% of yours.