Returns on Ultimate X, Dream Card, Good Times?

[Lucky Larry]

Does anyone know if the pay table returns for the games above have been published? The slot director at our local is bringing in the above three games but I haven't seen analysis of what the long term returns will be based on the pay table. I have the expected return on Super Times pay but haven't seen these yet.

Thanks,

LL

[Eduardo]

Judging by the top scores around here they return somewhere between 50% and 20,000%.

[shadowman]

In general added coin games return slightly better than the base games. This is required by law in NV so that is the way the games were designed. So, if you find a 9/6 DDB version the return should be slightly better than 99%.

[Lucky Larry]

In general added coin games return slightly better than the base games. This is required by law in NV so that is the way the games were designed. So, if you find a 9/6 DDB version the return should be slightly better than 99%.

Thanks Shadowman,
I didn't know about the NV law but, I assumed the return might be similar to STP, just a small +% but hadn't really seen anything definitive. With the high "extra coins" cost for max play, it does seem you will probably have to have a much larger cash roll to play with or have to play smaller denominations as the volatility seems to be higher.

I don't anticipate the pay tables being brought in for these six machines will be anything to crow about. Especially since our slot director doesn't seem to be in love with VP.

LL

[lil bil]

Hi, I need help with this concept.  You are saying that the added coin game pays slightly better than the base game.  I take this to mean that , for example, in Super Times Pay, where I must pay extra coins to get the super times multiplier, that when I do pay the extra coins the game does actually pay a little better than the same game played without adding the extra coin.  My husband thinks it could mean that the whole game pays better regardless of the players choice regarding the extra coin, so that I can play without paying extra and still get a little better odds.   
 
I like that game because I like Deuces Wild, and the game used to have a full pay 9/5 table.  Now it has been changed to  9/4, so I don't like it as much.  I know, it isn't real money.  I still liked the full pay game better.

[Webman]

Lil bil, playing without the 6th coin will pay exactly as you would expect for what the pay table shows.The question becomes the value of the 6th coin and how that bet (to activate a potential multiplier) affects the return percentage of the game. I believe the regulations state as Shadowman says, that the additional coin bet must be as good as or better than the game without betting that 6th coin. So if the pay table on a 5 coin bet would have a 99% return, the return on your 6th coin bet will be at least that (on average) if you play correctly.  You may increase the variance of the game, of course, since a zero win loses 6 coins instead of 5, and a multiplied win impacts it greatly in the positive direction. Those multiplied quads or royals are rare, but a special treat when they come along.This also means you need to know any strategy changes that an additional bet brings into play, in order to attain these percentages. In Super Times Pay, there are no strategy changes since every potential win is simply multiplied by the same value. Other games such as Ultimate X may require some different holds to attain that optimum return for a machine, since you are faced with earned multipliers.

[Lucky Larry]

Other games such as Ultimate X may require some different holds to attain that optimum return for a machine, since you are faced with earned multipliers.


Webman,
Does a recommended strategy exist or do you have recommendations like going for more full houses, quads, etc. to gain the multiplier on Ultimate X.?

LL

[shadowman]

I haven't seen any strategy for UltimateX. I spent a little time thinking about it and I think I know how to build a strategy but it would take a lot of work. Not something I have the time for right now.

[Lucky Larry]

I haven't seen any strategy for UltimateX. I spent a little time thinking about it and I think I know how to build a strategy but it would take a lot of work. Not something I have the time for right now.

Shadowman,
Thanks for the response. I certainly can understand not having time, I'm so swamped we won't be able to make a regular trip to the casino for at least two or three weeks and it is killing my better half.

LL

[New2vp]

Lil bil, playing without the 6th coin will pay exactly as you would expect for what the pay table shows.The question becomes the value of the 6th coin and how that bet (to activate a potential multiplier) affects the return percentage of the game. I believe the regulations state as Shadowman says, that the additional coin bet must be as good as or better than the game without betting that 6th coin. So if the pay table on a 5 coin bet would have a 99% return, the return on your 6th coin bet will be at least that (on average) if you play correctly.  You may increase the variance of the game, of course, since a zero win loses 6 coins instead of 5, and a multiplied win impacts it greatly in the positive direction. Those multiplied quads or royals are rare, but a special treat when they come along.This also means you need to know any strategy changes that an additional bet brings into play, in order to attain these percentages. In Super Times Pay, there are no strategy changes since every potential win is simply multiplied by the same value. Other games such as Ultimate X may require some different holds to attain that optimum return for a machine, since you are faced with earned multipliers.
Shouldn't this apply to Wheel Poker as well?  In his August 26, 2008 column, Dancer indicates that the returns for a 6-coin bet are all higher than the 5-coin base game bet EXCEPT Triple Double Bonus 9/7 and all the Deuces Wild games.So, are these games offered in Nevada against the regulations, do the wheel bonuses for these games have a different average than the other games, are Dancer's calculations incorrect, or am I missing something else?Something seems inconsistent here.