Gambling with an Edge --- May 3

[BobDancer]

This Thursday our guest will be player's lawyer Bob
Nersesian. He has been involved in many of the landmark cases enforcing player
rights against casinos, police departments, and gaming control boards.

 

In addition, Thursday afternoon before the show, Michael
Shackleford and I will be taking a tour of South Point Casino's surveillance
department. We'll tell you about what we find out.

 

We'll also be discussing the Wizard's free video poker
strategy maker. We'll be examining the LVH promotion where you get $500 in free
promotional chips if you sign up and are accepted for a $10,000 line of credit.

 

GWAE may be heard
live Thursday evenings from 7-8 in Las Vegas on 1230
AM or from www.klav1230am.com from
anywhere. The shows are archived the next day on
bobdancer.com. You may subscribe for free from iTunes to get the podcasts
delivered to your device.

[backsider]

Im really not surprised. Bob, I just read your recent article about the cruise, and how you said you used to be young, fit, and tanned, and spent a third of your years at nude beaches letting it all hang out.

While this type of provacative banter might excite a small volume of readers, all it does to an analyst such as myself is confirm the BS factor, to the point that you have to make up stories to stimulate yourself and now seriously question all that video poker bravado you have a need to brag about.

I was starting to come around. Why, at your age, do you need to bring up sex so often? It almost seems you must fantacize much about lots of sex, big amounts of money, and of being a video poker idol. Is any of it real?

[royal flush]

bob educated the general public about vp and other games, but at a cost to winning vp players like myself shadowman and some others as fewer good games. i play mere live poker to get an edge. on the other hand folks like jean scott help the general public by getting them to use comps and avoid the sucker games to reduce the costs of them going to las vegas without killing the good games.

[BillyJoe]

bob educated the general public about vp and other games, but at a cost to winning vp players like myself shadow man and some others as fewer good games. i play mere live poker to get an edge. on the other hand folks like jean scott help the general public by getting them to use comps and avoid the sucker games to reduce the costs of them going to las vegas without killing the good games.
Casinos are not stupid, although sometimes, they act that way. Let's not kid each other - their goal is to separate you from your money.  The tricky part is is to not put you off so much that you do not return - hence comps, giveaways, contests, etc. There is no edge to the player on a casino game (in live poker, you are playing against others, not the casino). The only true odds bet, where the casino does not have an edge and gives you a payoff commensurate with your bet, is the odds bet on the pass line point in craps.
So, play for the entertainment value, and get a good education and a good job to make money.

[backsider]

Billyjoe, those are accurate words. I have never bought into the theory that vp players ever have a true "advantage" even though the aps will claim that day and night. Ive always believed the written and spoken words of this forums greatest fear, who believes casinos have all them sassy promotions in order to get as many aps in to play as possible. They come in thinking they have an "edge" of some kind, but most of them leave wishing they had gone for a long walk instead.

Im glad I cant walk!

[shadowman]

"There is no edge to the player on a casino game "


 
Nonsense
 
"I have never bought into the theory that vp players ever have a true "advantage" "
 
It's not a theory, it's basic mathematics. When you try to argue against basic math you are fighting a losing battle. It will only make you look bad.

[backsider]

Were thinking on two different planes. Im thinking that if someone plays one of those games that calculates out to 103% however way they get there, the math says its so over a long period of time, but it just wont happen in a 24 hour session or however crazy long time an AP will chase it down.

You are thinking that it is as such for the small spec in time you are sitting at the machine, and not only is that spinning reality as we know it, its highly wishful thinking.

I am right.

[shadowman]

No AP thinks they will win every session. That's what's known as a strawman. However, given the edge each and every time they play they do believe that they have a much higher probability of success than a player who does not have an edge (probably about 99+% chance of success each year given a 103% return ).
 
Now, your claim should hold true for the casino as well. Even though they typically have a 103% advantage or better they should be expected to lose? Is that what you think?

[Quad Deuces]

What we have is people saying:1) The casinos always win because they have the advantage.2) Even if a player only plays when HE has the advantage, the casino will still win.3) Even if a casino paid 1.1:1 on a coin toss, they would still have the advantage and still win because they're not stupid.

[royal flush]

you guys are great for the casinos, all some of us are trying to demonstrate that in the long run math always prevails. in most casino games the house has the edge, a few vp games if the player plays the game correctly the player has the edge. live poker the player can have an edge if that player's skill level if enought the field he opposes. winning players do not expect to win in vp everytime he sits down to play as the advantage depends upon hitting the top hands with an average frequency as they will over the long haul. no one is advocting the everyone quit their day job and play vp, just sharing ideas to improve everyones results. authors like jean scott is catering to the novices with the use of coupons and comps along with playing vp instead of slots to reduce the "costs" of these folks vacation.