How long would it take

[ko king]

That's my question to any and all, how many hands would it take for you to become concerned about something may be different about the game. Let's use the game I've been playing lately at on casino, $1 denomination TDB with a paytable of 45/30. Everybody pretty much knows the hands that generate a handpay and the odds and statistics of getting one of those hands. My question is how many hands would it take without getting a single handpay would it take for you to have a little doubt or questions about what was going on?

[notes1]

i can tell you what some will say, they would NEVER have any doubt, because it is impossible for there to be questions about the machines. nothing has or could possibilty change, except the paytables.     

[FloridaPhil]

If you look at some of the mathematical charts for these games you will see there is a chance that anything can happen.  In fact, you have the same chance of never getting a royal in your lifetime as one every time you go...   This is an exaggeration, but it does demonstrate what is possible.  I believe there may be slight differences in the way the new machines work due to the speed of the chips or some other hardware influence, but I still believe the hands are random and there is nothing to be concerned about.  Reduced odds however are a real and pervasive problem.  How you adjust your play to compensate is up to you...  

[FAA]

Interesting way to frame the issue. As a rough rule of thumb? I would take the expected hand pay odds and tack on 50% more hands as a somewhat generous buffer. By this time you will be plenty frustrated anyway and disinclined to look at the machine ever again, much less play it. 

[ko king]

i can tell you what some will say, they would NEVER have any doubt, because it is impossible for there to be questions about the machines. nothing has or could possibilty change, except the paytables.
 
 
 
 
 

                                                                                                                                                                        
 
They wouldn't be telling the truth then, I really would like to hear from some of the other players. How many hands would it take of $1 TDB at max play for doubt to creep in if you didn't hit a single handpay.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]They wouldn't be telling the truth then, I really would like to hear from some of the other players.[/quote]Sounds like you are looking for verification of your belief that the machines are rigged?  I'm sure you will find plenty of takers depending upon how they did last trip. 

[notes1]

i hope you get responses from the folks you seek answers from. i do not think it is fair to call them dishonest if they do not believe there is something different about a machine, when they do not get advertised returns. they may call it bad luck, but i think they truely believe there is no possibility of anything being different about any machine, other than paytable reductions or some kind of malfunction. i also think they believe this is a conversation not worth having. because they think the machines are 100% random and nothing is amiss, anyone complaining is just uninformed.

[FAA]

Plenty of axes will be thoroughly ground by the conclusion of this thread.     

[ko king]

[quote=ko king]They wouldn't be telling the truth then, I really would like to hear from some of the other players.Sounds like you are looking for verification of your belief that the machines are rigged?  I'm sure you will find plenty of takers depending upon how they did last trip. 
[/QUOTE]

                                                  
 
Now Phil you used the word "rigged" not me, I simply think something has changed. I also have no interest in folks who had one bad trip to the casino. I would like to hear just how many hands played or trips taken to the casino it would take of bad vp for an expert vp player to wonder if something has changed. There has to an honest answer from even the most trusting players, is it 40K hands, 80K hands or never? I only ask a simple question, I'm not looking for verification of anything, my mind is already made up. I just know even the most hardcore believers would have a breaking point, I'm just not sure where that point lies. Now keep in mind I'm not asking about any one hand like a royal flush, I went 10 years without hitting one, I hit everything else like crazy though. Where would your breaking point be?

[ko king]

Plenty of axes will be thoroughly ground by the conclusion of this thread.     

         
 
In other words, the world would be a better place if noone ever ask any questions.