100% payback

[binoy]

I saw on vp machines 100% payback with max bet at optimum play. Please explain what this means, also saw 99.86% on others. Just wondered what they mean?

[onemoretry]

It means that, over time, you will likely come extremely close to winning back the total amount you have wagered, plus or minus a bit.

[Gronbog]

More precisely, for the 99.86% machine, it means that you can expect to lose 0.14% of your total coin in (100% - 99.86% = 0.14%). For example, if you play max coin quarters ($1.25 per hand) and play 10000 hands, you will have played $12,500 coin in and can expect to lose $17.50. As onemoretry points out, over such a short period of play, you results will not be exactly this amount. They will be something more or less than this amount. The more you play, the closer your actual results will be, as a percentage, to the expected results.For the 100% game, you theoretically have a completely fair game. Over the long run, if you play perfectly, whether you win or lose will be completely determined by luck.

[BobDancer]

What was said by the other posters was correct.

A major point worth stressing is that the return is only realized if you play appropriately. The average player make 1% or more worth of mistakes --- which obliterates your chances of breaking even over the long term.

[Chicagoan]

Bob, with all due respect, my own observations in various casinos are that the average players' mistake percentage is much higher than 1%. Casinos count on most players making mistakes, thus allowing for a nice profit even with the somewhat rare perfect player.

[Jstark]

Bob, with all due respect, my own observations in various casinos are that the average players' mistake percentage is much higher than 1%. Casinos count on most players making mistakes, thus allowing for a nice profit even with the somewhat rare perfect player.
I agree with this. I'd say it's an overall 5% or higher. Vegas might be closer to 1%

[Eduardo]

People might make a mistake (imperfect hold) 5% of the time (I don't really know) but the EV cost on most of those mistakes is probably very low on close holds. Probably the EV cost is closer to the 1% than 5%. I don't know how anyone can guess on this based on watching people and I'm guessing Bob D has some actual data he is basing it on. Those little mistakes add up. Big mistakes add up more, but are probably less common.

[BobDancer]

Casinos typically use an estimate of 2% errors --- which include playing mistakes and short coin. And that's an average over all video poker games.For "loose" games, which are the ones that players study the most, the percentage is much lower. For 9/6 Jacks, in Las Vegas, few casinos offer a theoretical higher than 0.5%. The game is simple and that's the game that all the vp books start with.For games like 8/5 DDB, which starts out at  96.8%. knowledgeable players know enough to stay away from such bad games. So the only ones who play it are the relatively clueless --- so probably the error rate is 3% or 4%.

[EDC1977]

Sometimes, 8/5 DDB is the best paytable the house offers so you're stuck either playing the poor paytable game or risk it on a higher denom. It's unfortunate but that's the way the houses operate anymore. Not everywhere has paytables like LV.

[dw44]

Well they could just not play.