A SERIOUS, MEANINGFUL THREAD

[pokerforme]

You read all of that or do you just disagree to reading that much stuff all jumbled together...I read parts of his posts but those kind get passed by.

[Tedlark]

  I disagree with most of it but most especially his last sentence.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]   While the PHYSICAL Fall of Rome may have been at the hands of barbarians, the ECONOMIC Fall of Rome was due to it's over-extension, not being able to pay it's bills (especially it's legions) since it could not generate sufficient income from it's citizens.

Sound familiar, President Obama? But while I am not a fan of the current President (nor any of his predecessors except the First George H. W. bush), I must disagree with your pointing a finger at the President (the office itself, not its current occupant) as being responsible for the current mess of the USA economy, society and everything in General.

[/QUOTE] Actually, while I agree with your comments about how things get done through Congress, the Office of the President is SINGULAR, and requires leadership, the kind of leadership that can cut through all the other stuff, and reach a desired goal. Kennedy (Man on the Moon), Truman (drop the A-Bomb rather than a bloody land invasion of Japan) exhibited that kind of leadership at those moments, whether you agree with their decisions or not.

THAT is what I look for in a President, the person holding that singular office in this great country. Someone who can cut through all the crap and noise, and get things done. Yes - I hold the President accountable.    

[DaBurglar]

   Actually, while I agree with your comments about how things get done through Congress, the Office of the President is SINGULAR, and requires leadership, the kind of leadership that can cut through all the other stuff, and reach a desired goal. Kennedy (Man on the Moon), Truman (drop the A-Bomb rather than a bloody land invasion of Japan) exhibited that kind of leadership at those moments, whether you agree with their decisions or not.

THAT is what I look for in a President, the person holding that singular office in this great country. Someone who can cut through all the crap and noise, and get things done. Yes - I hold the President accountable.    This is all true and relevant, and you clearly have a understanding of how things work, as well as the big picture which includes the subtle nuances and "unwritten rules".   I really enjoy posting with you Billyjoe, but I will acknowledge that we do often go off on tangents that are unrelated to Video poker (lol)....but then again, as I have said before, this is an open, free-thinking FORUM, where people have online discussions instead of person to person.    As often happens in real world interaction, conversations often twist and turn and morph into many things at once....it is to be expected.You touched on something (Truman and the A-bomb, and why he decided to do it) that, by itself, should have its own Thread!   that is a really interesting, and often controversial topic that can stir a lot of opinions from a lot of different corners.   I think I will start one in the "Anything and everything" section, please share your detailed thoughts and opinions on this Bilyjoe, once I get around to starting it....or if you want to start it before me, please do!Regarding the President and Congress and accountability and all that.......Yes, I did not actually mean to say that Presidents have to always, ultimately, kow tow to Congress when all is said and done.....its actually a intricate balance and interaction, set up by our founders to be that.    Executive Branch does its thing, Legislative does what it is required, and Judiciary tells everyone exactly how far and how much each one must do .... or NOT do.    Checks and balances, is a good, but not perfect system.   And it still (in theory) keeps power in the hands of the general populace (although this has been perverted and is in danger of being undermined by (a)  the power of excessive wealth and money being in the hands of a relative few people and groups....and (b) the "tyranny of the minority", whereby certain extremely zealous and motivated special interest groups or constituents exert disproportionate influence through fear, intimidation and disinformation)    Groups such as Pro-life (and its opponents in the pro choice camp) BOTH can get really nasty and violent;  the current GAY rights movement has managed to take center stage amidst a world full of more pressing, urgent issues and yet they make it seem like there's is the only issue worthy of the evening news, but you also have on the other side EXTREMELY severe and arrogant ANTI-gay rights groups, like some so-called "evangelical christians" who would like nothing better than to have all gay people imprisoned and walled off their own state!;  and there are many other examples of this "tyranny of the minority".

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]   Actually, while I agree with your comments about how things get done through Congress, the Office of the President is SINGULAR, and requires leadership, the kind of leadership that can cut through all the other stuff, and reach a desired goal. Kennedy (Man on the Moon), Truman (drop the A-Bomb rather than a bloody land invasion of Japan) exhibited that kind of leadership at those moments, whether you agree with their decisions or not.

THAT is what I look for in a President, the person holding that singular office in this great country. Someone who can cut through all the crap and noise, and get things done. Yes - I hold the President accountable.    This is all true and relevant, and you clearly have a understanding of how things work, as well as the big picture which includes the subtle nuances and "unwritten rules". Yes, I did not actually mean to say that Presidents have to always, ultimately, kow tow to Congress when all is said and done.....its actually a intricate balance and interaction, set up by our founders to be that.    Executive Branch does its thing, Legislative does what it is required, and Judiciary tells everyone exactly how far and how much each one must do .... or NOT do.    Checks and balances, is a good, but not perfect system.   And it still (in theory) keeps power in the hands of the general populace (although this has been perverted and is in danger of being undermined by (a)  the power of excessive wealth and money being in the hands of a relative few people and groups....and (b) the "tyranny of the minority", whereby certain extremely zealous and motivated special interest groups or constituents exert disproportionate influence through fear, intimidation and disinformation.
[/QUOTE]
But, we need to remember, DB, that we are a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY. We elect officials to represent us, and our interests, in Washington.

So while the 'checks and balances' are important, so to is the leadership that guides this country on our behalf.

[DaBurglar]

  But, we need to remember, DB, that we are a REPUBLIC, not a DEMOCRACY. We elect officials to represent us, and our interests, in Washington.

So while the 'checks and balances' are important, so to is the leadership that guides this country on our behalf. certainly....this is another example of semantics causing confusion.     Very few people actually have your understanding of things Billyjoe, they use terms and throw phrases around and have no idea what they really are saying.Here is one way to illustrate what you just posted.......The Government of the US functions in the Manner and characteristics of a REPUBLIC....but the PROCESS by which its officials are chosen, and the PROCESS through which the Government is changed is Democratic.If we were a true democracy, all 300 million-plus of US citizens would have to vote yes or no on things like whether or not to make Ground Hog Day a federal holiday lol    You get the point

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar of the over 311,000,000 US citizens having a vote, are you including those under legal voting age in your number? Considering that as of the last CENSUS roughly 23% of the population of the US is under age 18 we can then safely say that 233,000,000 would have a vote? Please allow me a margin of error plus or minus 3,000,000 citizens. But does your number ALSO include those here illegally as I believe the Census Bureau numbers include that class. Also does your number also exclude those classes of people who you have offended here?

[pokerforme]

[gofaster87]

What happened to video poker? The Fa la la la la... la la la... la. discussions were more entertaining than this.

[Tedlark]

Video poker chat is currently being discussed at: WWW.USConstitutioninterpretation.com.