the situation is worse than ever

Discussion about gambling in Atlantic City
Tedlark
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Re: the situation is worse than ever

Post by Tedlark »

  IN A POST MADE BY KO KING ON NOVEMBER 26 2013, HE STATES: "AND I'VE NEVER EVEN PLAYED ON THE EAST COAST."

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »

Yeah I remember a local casino of his giving him a runaround after asking some questions about the machines.

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »



DaBurglar nowhere in this thread did ko king mention an 83%-99% curve nor did ko king mention AC. You then write that ko king mentioned something to that effect in another forum but you, YOU, brought it to this forum posting instead of leaving it in the posting where it was. You have a history of trying to hijack a number of forum postings by injecting your anti-AC rhetoric and your theories about paytables and the like into them and then you sit back and wait for responses. Someone could publish a forum post about checkers and you would then somehow reply and bring AC into it; totally trying to drive the original forum topic off focus.
 
  I will continue to respond to your posts negatively until you stop this behavior. You are an easy person to rattle and quite frankly you pose absolutely no challenge at all to me. An easy comparison would be shooting fish in a barrel with a shotgun.
 
  You have made a few contributions to this forum that were mildly entertaining and it stirred some interaction among the forum members and that's exactly what this forum is for. We are all very aware of your position on video poker in AC so why do you keep bringing it up?
 
  Edited to add: DaBurglar you said that you encourage other people to bring up their negative AC vp experience to the forum so that it can verify your experience. Are you really that insecure?
 
  I once had a bad meal at a well known restaurant chain that has locations across the country but I'm not constantly asking people to report if they also had a bad meal at the same restaurant just so I can feel better about myself.
  post all you want, shoot all the fish in whatever barrels I set up, be the petty ridiculous person you obviously are, I dont care....I will continue to post my experiences in AC, and anywhere else I go or have been, as I see fit, since as you so strenuously point out, this is an OPEN forum.   you must have a lot of time on your hands and be really bored if you have chosen to make me your "crusade" or whatever.....  Perhaps I misread a ko king post somewhere and thought he was talking about AC, but sinc ehe so specifically pointed to a range between 83-99 it sure sounded like what I have found in AC/    I asked people to share ALL their experience in AC, both postive and negative and anything in between,  I KNOW I said that...but you feel the need to distort what I said. I will never know or understand why i bug you so much or why you feel it falls upon you to protect the world from my "anti-ac" rhetoric, when I repeat over and over how much I like AC as a whole and wish it would fix its problems....but knock yourself out, you will not stop or drive me away.   On the contrary, I am brushing off my data to uncover new points and new ways to enlighten the forum about AC, including where I believe the GOOD machines actually are (the ones where the paytable does indeed dictate return %)....now thats a good thing isnt it? And I know that whatever the "personal insult" i said against you way back when was purely unintentional, and I know that I did apologize for whatever it was, but you apparently cannot get over it......

BillyJoe
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Post by BillyJoe »

We both know BJ that pic had nothing to do with your not so random entry.
Well, EDog, then you have far more insight into that "not so random" selection than I do. All I know is I put it up there with the "blind squirrel and an acorn".

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »


Yeah, I don't recall ko king having any discussion with the new jersey gaming commission. If he did, can he direct me to that original post?

I'm not even sure ko king has even played in AC before.

Oh and to add more fuel to the fire, da burglar originally stated in this thread that he has a 72% return in the last 10 months. Considering how often he is playing, that return is impossible on a 83% return machine. So why don't you just admit they are breaking the law...lol
  On page 11 of the thread "DISTRESSING CET VIDEO POKER"  in Video Poker Stories, ko king makes a post in response to the semi-obnoxious post edog made about people being "dumb f---ks"  etc.......read it.    But I admit I aparently assumed ko king was talking about a CET AC property when he was not that specific so if that is the case, thats my mistake.    But his post still does offer some support to what I am saying about AC in that what he received from whatever gaming authority he contacted is basically the same as what I have found in AC.   And as far as 72% being impossible, I have no idea how you can say that.....of course its possible, and I did in fact get this.  if a machine is set as low as 83%, you are definitely going to have some really putrid sessions as the return percentage is a "benchmark" set to cover a LONG period of time and a lot of action, so you will have long stretches where its well below 83%  Here is what you need to do vman, you need to call the NJ gaming comm and have them explain why and how it IS legal for the casinos to do what they are doing, despite that blurb you cannot get your mind around.

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »



BTW --- I started this thread so I have not hijacked anything, and it is in the AC section which tedlark long ago "ADMONISHED AND INSTRUCTED ME" to keep my AC posts confined to here, so clearly his latest vent of accusations and vitriol is simply his cyber-bullying routine against me....nothing more.  The guy wants me gone....... I was not aware that he was "the moderator" of this forum and could tell other posters what they can or cannot post. Webman, I am sure you have better things to do, but kindly weigh in on this please:   I would ask you to read the last month's worth of posts and see what exactly is going on here.....I am neither addressing or attacking tedlark when i make my posts, but he apparently feels the need to do so towards me.....

ko king
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Post by ko king »

To borrow a line from one of my favorite movies of all time, "what we have here is a failure to communicate" and that may be partly my fault, if so I apologize. All I'm doing is lending a few lines of support or understanding directed toward DaBurglar because like I said before, been there done that. When Daburglar mentioned the 83% it brought back memories of the time I was trying to gain a better understanding of some vp I was playing. The 83-99.99% figures were what I was told the "curve" was that determines if the game is running within the range. I had heard numbers like that before but I thought they only applied to slots. While I enjoy discussing matters like this and sharing stories it's not a big enough deal for me to get mad and argue about anymore. To me E-Dog's pretty much right, if you're not comfortable or enjoying yourself wherever you're playing either go somewhere else or don't play at all because it's pretty much taking a trip on a ship going nowhere. It is what it is, whatever that may be.

Vman96
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Post by Vman96 »


[QUOTE=Vman96]Oh and to add more fuel to the fire, da burglar originally stated in this thread that he has a 72% return in the last 10 months. Considering how often he is playing, that return is impossible on a 83% return machine. So why don't you just admit they are breaking the law...lol
And as far as 72% being impossible, I have no idea how you can say that.....of course its possible, and I did in fact get this.  if a machine is set as low as 83%, you are definitely going to have some really putrid sessions as the return percentage is a "benchmark" set to cover a LONG period of time and a lot of action, so you will have long stretches where its well below 83%[/QUOTE]

Eh, I should have added the word "virtually" unless you are playing less than 10,000 hands in 10 months.

Here is what the results of an 84.08% 6/5 Bonus machine would look like where 2 pair is also 1 for 1, instead of 2 for 1, assuming a fair video poker game, which would be legal in New Jersey, but illegal for its neighbor Pennsylania as they require 85%. It pays back a little better than the state bare minimum 83%, but I wanted to keep the bonus format that you say you play a lot.

The worst return in 10,000 runs of 10,000 hands each was 74.22%, still higher than you claimed. So not only does the machine have to pay 83% for you to even have a chance of your claim, the machine likely will need to also increase its variance for it to happen. And that's just for 10,000 hands! The more hands you play, the closer you get to the expected return... How many hands have you played in 10 months?

And you only will win about 0.63% of the time with this particular paytable after 10,000 hands. Having at least 2 Royals in 10,000 hands is usually required for a win to make up for the house edge. Since AC is quite the drive for you, I assume you play about 10,000 hands in a weekend and very possibly more. If so, do you only win 1 out of every 100 trips? Hell, have you even made 100 trips to AC yet? And if other people are experiencing this, why don't you go on a crusade? God knows I would.


                                                  Results
Sims                                         10000.000000
ROI %                                          -15.916945
SD                                               4.582707
Sim Loss %                                      99.370000
Sim Loss w/no Royal %                          100.000000
% of Royalless Sims                             77.380000
% Sims with 2 Royals or more in 10,000 hands     2.560000

$`Win/Loss Summary (in coins)`
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
-12890   -9500   -8585   -7966   -7045    5280

$`Summary of Return %age`
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
74.22   81.00   82.83   84.07   85.91 110.60

$`Summary of Royals`
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
0.0000 0.0000 0.0000 0.2538 0.0000 3.0000

$`Summary of Quads`
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.
   8.00   20.00   24.00   23.66   27.00   43.00

$`Win/Loss w/o RF (in coins)`
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.    NA's
-12890   -9725   -8985   -8975   -8255   -4665    2262

$`Win/Loss w/2 Royals or more in 10,000 hands (in coins)
   Min. 1st Qu. Median    Mean 3rd Qu.    Max.    NA's
-3320.0 -1752.0 -857.5 -698.4    -5.0 5280.0 9744.0

And here is what the return percentage looks like in pretty histogram form:


Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

  Excellent work Vman.
 
  And just so you can rest easy DaBurglar I actually don't spend much time at all with you. You don't bother me, pester me, or get to me. I don't think about you, ponder what you wrote, or dream about how I can rattle your cage. You are like a jukebox stocked with 100 records but unfortunately all 100 records are of the same tune.

DaBurglar
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Post by DaBurglar »




V-man: I actually enjoy your responses and the way you tell me "i am full of it" because you actually put serious thought and effort into it, and even if I do not agree with it, I always appreciate real intelligence and sincere effort, so let me express that before I go on.....  What your simulation(s) do not take into account or replicate is the actual WAY ac vp machines operate.   The paytables in AC are NOT what drives the machines return percent down into the lower slot ranges.   What the machines are doing is they are actually SET internally to simply deal more random crap in the mix of hands they put out.....I know it is hard for you to believe or swallow, and this is the reason all along why it was hard for me to get my mind around what was happening and why I didnt curb my play a year earlier, and it is something I truly did not want to believe, but my dud rate screams too loud to ignore any longer. I have actually asked the question to both casino execs, slot managers and workers, and the people in the gaming control office in AC, "Are your VP machines set to deal hands exactly the way machines, say, in Nevada are?"    No one has ever answered a simple YES...I get all kinds of ridiculous answers, vague answers, and on at least two occasions a casino worker and a gaming control agent manning the desk in the office said some VP machines will yield far more no-value hands than others. I did not want to think or believe this but I have no choice now given my results and all the other things I have learned. to further elaborate, a large portion of my crappy results have been on many of Resorts VP machines playing 8/5 Bonus poker (a 99.2% game)    That's the killer/kicker for me, that I continue to have such awful results and so many duds on machines playing that seemingly "good" game. Until or unless you actually go yourself to either allow me to show you my VP results in the casinos (yes they will printout enough detail for you to see what I mean),  or unless you yourself go there and play and ask around, you will never really comprehend this....I know because it took me this long to believe it myself and I went often over four years.

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