Who's to Blame, and/or who gets the credit....

[DaBurglar]

I'd like someone here too to actually help ME learn or know something I currently do not:WHAt exactly are the jobs that "illegals" are "Stealing" from "real Americans"???   Please, I'm seriously asking......list precisely what jobs are being stolen by people in this country illegally that otherwise good, honest hardworking legitimate AMERICAN citizens would be taking.....And for everyone out there who insists that we "GIVE TRUMP A CHANCE", please stop saying that:1)  Obviously, we do not have a choice in the matter, and TRUMP, like him or not, IS GOING to have "his chance".....its going to happen, he will be president come January 20.     And sure, of course, I HOPE THE A-hole succeeds.....I really truly do.   But I don't see how that is realistically probable or even possible.....as people who tend to be conservative and on the "right" are fond of saying/reminding the rest of us, "THE BEST PREDICTOR of future behavior is PAST behavior", and Trump's past (STILL) is what it is......his business/financial history & track record is full of questionable-to-downright-deplorable dealings and activities.    How is it that so many people either dont care about this or simply dismiss it?    It seems to be the most egregious and widespread case of cognitive dissonance since Noah's Ark.2)  As I said once before already, we will now have a "Republican" President in Trump, a Republican dominated Congress/Legislature (Senate & House), and the Supreme Court will soon be in the hands of COnservatives for many years to come (three existing justices are in their 80s so likely that Trump will be picking and appointing several justices).......it is all lining up, all coming into focus.....despite the fact that Republicans are the minority (numerically speaking) party in the USA, they will have control, and thus the opportunity, to once and for all show that their way is the best way.         But, as I asked before, WHAT LEVEL of catastrophe, or disaster, needs to happen or take place in order for people to ADMIT that electing Trump was a mistake?    You can shout and shriek "GIVE HIM A CHANCE!" all you want, but the problem with this is it is NOT a GAME, or some other frivolous activity we are talking about here.....we are talking about literally LIFE AND DEATH, PROSPERITY or CALAMITY.....we are talking about GOVERNMENT.   And we just put at the head a man with ZERO experience serving the PUBLIC, who has never experienced any type of adversity or calamity, who has never been deprived of anything or suffered in anyway....To put it another way, its like filling a 747 passenger jet full of customers, and then having ME roll on board and say to the passengers, "HEY!  I can do a better job flying this aircraft than the pilots you've been using for the last 50 years!   I know I can!   Just GIVE ME A CHANCE AND I WILL SHOW YOU!!"      

[Tedlark]

Still singing the same old songs DaBurglar.....same old songs.....

[Carcounter]

You know someone once said a really smart person can get their point across with a minimum of words.

[Carcounter]

While we are on the subject, exactly how surprised were you by the election? I'll admit I was surprised, but not shocked. There was something going on that most people couldn't get a handle on, myself included. Everywhere Trump went in Pa., Ohio, Micigan etc. he was met by thousands of enthusiastic supporters. Hillary had trouble filling a high school gym. I know this is not an indication of how an election would go, but I definitely felt something was going on. When on election night did you know it was over? For me it was around 11 pm eastern time.although the big Midwestern states and Pa. Hadn't been called,the percentage of the vote was going up and the gaps weren't closing. Hillay's senior advisors had left the Javits Center by 9 PM, so they knew then. They probably knew several days before the election and that's why they cancelled the fireworks over the Hudson on election night.

[albatross]

You can tell how good the economy is doing just by how long it takes to get to work. What used to take 20 mins now is 45 mins. But I am willing to bet it will be back to 20 maybe 15 4 years from now. Perhaps all the jobs will be in Russia.

[Carcounter]

I guess I now know why you go by the handle of albatross.

[DaBurglar]

I guess I now know why you go by the handle of albatross.You know, Carcounter Why can't you lay it out for those of us (like me) who honestly would like to know or hear what you think, without limiting your input to potshots?   I honestly sense you have a lot more to OFFER..........I'm sorry if you really, TRULY cannot handle my alleged excessive wordiness or length....clearly one of our first, obvious differences is what actually constitutes "excessive length".   AS always when starting a thread in the EVERYTHING/ANYTHING section involving politics, the economy and/or the Casino industry, my intent is to engender a good, spirited, interesting debate & narrative.   It's only when self centered, hostile, unthinking posters decide to derail & ruin it for everyone with pointless insults that things actually turn into "the same old same old"....In the meantime, I am honestly interested in hearing carcounter's, or anyone else's, actual/REAL views or thoughts on the topic(s) I have posted about, and enjoy debating or finding common ground, or what not......The chief, overriding case in point as I already demonstrated earlier, is that the COMMON (in this case Conservative/REPUBLICAN) viewpoint/narrative on the topic of JOBS in the American Economy is that the USA, since the early 1990s, is losing, and has lost, LARGE numbers of good quality middle class manufacturing jobs to a combination of those jobs being shipped overseas ..... and/or "FOREIGNERS/IMMIGRANTS" (both LEGAL and ILLEGAL apparently) arriving on our shores and grabbing these jobs BEFORE those of us ALREADY here have a chance to "grab them".....ALSO, in specific industries such as the oft-mentioned  COAL INDUSTRY, you have a different dynamic allegedly at work killing middle class Coal Mining jobs, specifically environmental quotas, regulations and policies that are attributed to BARACK OBAMA and ONLY Barack OBAMA (a.k.a.  "THE BARACKNESS MONSTER") that cause Coal Mining Companies to SHUT DOWN mining operations in states like Kentucky, Pennsylvania and West Virginia because they allegedly cannot attain the profitability required by investors (i.e. WALL STREET) on operations there.  Thus, all the "middle class" coal miners in that part of the country perpetually languish (since the 1990s) and wallow in ever deepening poverty and deprivation because the US GOVERNMENT refuses to roll back, loosen or totally repeal the environmental regulations that "hamper" the Coal Mining Companies (i.e.  or "a.k.a." Energy" Conglomerates).I put forth several simple, counter narratives (or REASONS) that explain WHY things are the way they have been that conflict or undermine the typical standard Conservative/Republican narrative on these topics.....and as yet received NO replies or substantive input (either pro or con) to my thoughts.....just some typical, CYNICAL NON-responses and criticism of the "wordiness" of my posts.I maintain the "JOBS" that people keep looking for and demanding, and whose disappearance and failure to return people keep blaming on immigrants and foreign countries (in cahoots with greedy, tax evading cost cutting AMERICAN Corporations)   are in actuality  GONE  due to the simple, inexorable force known as.... PROGRESS....technological progress in the form of computers, robots, automation, etc  which allows countries like the USA with advanced, deeply diverse economies  to continuously improve and increase OUTPUT and production while cutting costs is the primary "culprit" for the loss of middle class manufacturing jobs......BY FAR.   Simply google this topic and you will be met with a plethora of sources from which to derive and illustrate this FACT with empirical data.    Case Closed.As respects the beleaguered Coal Industry....again its a simple, easily established & proven situation of TECHNOLOGICAL ADVANCEMENT combined with business, environmental and economic forces compelling the companies in coal mining to simply "ADAPT or DIE".   In other words, it is the Capitalistic, Free Market that Republicans loudly and emphatically embrace that has largely "forced" the Coal Industry to wind up in the shape it is in today.    Coal is more easliy and cheaply found, mined/produced and distributed using the now ubiquitous "TOP-DOWN" (or more commonly known and generalized as SURFACE/CONTOUR Mining)....this is in contrast to the older, conventional method of DEEP SHAFT (or "DIGGING & Lugging" it out of the ground).    The Older conventional method involved lots of people and it spurred the development of Coal Mining UNIONS to rep all the people needed to go down in all those "holes".   The newer methods involving Surface/Contour approaches, are MACHINE & Technology intensive, which means you do NOT need lots of people which (in turn) means COSTS go WAY WAY down for many reasons, not the least of which you dont need to worry about health & disability related issues, retirement or Union expenses!   States like WYOMING & Colorado, and others with LOTS of far ranging and open Mountain terrains are now vastly replacing the old source states like Kentucky & West Virginia.   Only Idiotic Companies not Interested in turning a profit will be mining Coal in the Appalachian mines in the future....in other words, NO ONE.  Thus the claims by Trump that he will be bringing BACK the COAL Jobs is a whole lot of BS....but truly, ANY knowledgeable VOTER who voted for TRUMP must have known this.....it was all the Ignorant, Non-knowledgeable Voters who chose Trump who will be disappointed!   (see the following illustration to better grasp the whole coal mining dynamic)

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar I am impressed with your knowledge of the coal industry and this knowledge can only have come from you having spent many years in it of course. Or google.

[edog743]

I think Mr. burglar deserves a pat on the back for doing research before making his post. You know Ted you do not have to be a crabby butt cranky pants all of the time.

[Tedlark]

Ouch edog, did you research your post on google before you posted it too? Maybe I'm just concerned that DaBurglar's information is incomplete because he failed to mention the importance of coal mining to the Southern Illinois region?

Edited to add: Only in a country as great as ours can someone such as Mr. DaBurglar have a forum in which to openly speak his opinion regardless of whether he voted in this most recent Presidential election or not. I seem to recall him stating that he was going to abstain from casting a vote.