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[QUOTE=advantage playe]
i believe those in the military who died protecting us are in paradise like the martyrs ofJesus!
You need to actually read the Bible and learn about Jesus Christ and his followers....turn the other cheek, love your enemies etc. [/QUOTE]
IIRC, our Lord and Savior opened up a big can of Whip Ass on the money changers in the Temple. I picture Jesus as a man made strong from laboring as a humble tradesman, a carpenter in fact, and fed up with what he'd been seeing. After reasoning with them, to no avail to stop what they were doing, He took a more serious approach. Totally out numbered, He had to “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome†and cleaned out the Temple.
I wonder if he did this in part, to tie into a later teaching when he said: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." By extension that would include a whole lot of folks/friends served by First Responders who make that sacrifice on a daily basis.
My guess is that I won't find you in that line of First Responders when it's time to man-up and do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, but I'm sure they will be there for YOU.
CK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtJDNmqpUY
United States Marine Corps Birthday
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Casino Knight
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billryan
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Jesus was the son of a carpenter, not a carpenter himself. Most likely, he was selected at an early age to study to be a rabbi.
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DaBurglar
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[QUOTE=DaBurglar] [QUOTE=advantage playe]
i believe those in the military who died protecting us are in paradise like the martyrs ofJesus!
You need to actually read the Bible and learn about Jesus Christ and his followers....turn the other cheek, love your enemies etc. [/QUOTE]
IIRC, our Lord and Savior opened up a big can of Whip Ass on the money changers in the Temple. I picture Jesus as a man made strong from laboring as a humble tradesman, a carpenter in fact, and fed up with what he'd been seeing. After reasoning with them, to no avail to stop what they were doing, He took a more serious approach. Totally out numbered, He had to “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome†and cleaned out the Temple.
I wonder if he did this in part, to tie into a later teaching when he said: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." By extension that would include a whole lot of folks/friends served by First Responders who make that sacrifice on a daily basis.
My guess is that I won't find you in that line of First Responders when it's time to man-up and do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, but I'm sure they will be there for YOU.
CK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtJDNmqpUY[/QUOTE]
1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident.
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
As for me and first responders, etc. You already made clear your feeling way back when you said you would stand clear with your guns while someone dumped me out of my wheelchair on my ass....so take your "guess" about what I will or won't do and stick it up yours
i believe those in the military who died protecting us are in paradise like the martyrs ofJesus!
You need to actually read the Bible and learn about Jesus Christ and his followers....turn the other cheek, love your enemies etc. [/QUOTE]
IIRC, our Lord and Savior opened up a big can of Whip Ass on the money changers in the Temple. I picture Jesus as a man made strong from laboring as a humble tradesman, a carpenter in fact, and fed up with what he'd been seeing. After reasoning with them, to no avail to stop what they were doing, He took a more serious approach. Totally out numbered, He had to “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome†and cleaned out the Temple.
I wonder if he did this in part, to tie into a later teaching when he said: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." By extension that would include a whole lot of folks/friends served by First Responders who make that sacrifice on a daily basis.
My guess is that I won't find you in that line of First Responders when it's time to man-up and do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, but I'm sure they will be there for YOU.
CK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtJDNmqpUY[/QUOTE]
1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident.
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
As for me and first responders, etc. You already made clear your feeling way back when you said you would stand clear with your guns while someone dumped me out of my wheelchair on my ass....so take your "guess" about what I will or won't do and stick it up yours
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DaBurglar
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In fact you know what? Lumping "first responders" into a thread ostensibly about the Marine corps, in an effort to dodge and deflect my post about the criminal marine drill instructors who absolutely got what they deserve, is about as dishonest and disingenuous as you can get...
And you can't even argue with "I take em one at a time" because that is the essence of what being American is all about....each person will be judged as he/she deserves based on their own character and achievement.
And you can't even argue with "I take em one at a time" because that is the essence of what being American is all about....each person will be judged as he/she deserves based on their own character and achievement.
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Casino Knight
- VP Veteran
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- Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:14 am
Jesus was the son of a carpenter, not a carpenter himself. Most likely, he was selected at an early age to study to be a rabbi.
Was Jesus a carpenter?
https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Jesus-a-carpenter.html
Was Jesus a carpenter?
https://www.gotquestions.org/was-Jesus-a-carpenter.html
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billryan
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- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
Joseph is last heard from when Jesus was presented at the Temple. There is nothing in any gospel to indicate he raised Jesus nor that he taught Jesus his trade.
Nothing. Nada. What happened to Joseph is one of the many mysteries about this time.
Nothing. Nada. What happened to Joseph is one of the many mysteries about this time.
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Casino Knight
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[QUOTE=Casino Knight] [QUOTE=DaBurglar] [QUOTE=advantage playe]
i believe those in the military who died protecting us are in paradise like the martyrs ofJesus!
You need to actually read the Bible and learn about Jesus Christ and his followers....turn the other cheek, love your enemies etc. [/QUOTE]
IIRC, our Lord and Savior opened up a big can of Whip Ass on the money changers in the Temple. I picture Jesus as a man made strong from laboring as a humble tradesman, a carpenter in fact, and fed up with what he'd been seeing. After reasoning with them, to no avail to stop what they were doing, He took a more serious approach. Totally out numbered, He had to “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome†and cleaned out the Temple.
I wonder if he did this in part, to tie into a later teaching when he said: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." By extension that would include a whole lot of folks/friends served by First Responders who make that sacrifice on a daily basis.
My guess is that I won't find you in that line of First Responders when it's time to man-up and do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, but I'm sure they will be there for YOU.
CK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtJDNmqpUY[/QUOTE]
1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident.
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
As for me and first responders, etc. You already made clear your feeling way back when you said you would stand clear with your guns while someone dumped me out of my wheelchair on my ass....so take your "guess" about what I will or won't do and stick it up yours[/QUOTE]
It was about two years ago when our little conversation evolved into a discussion about you being dumped out of your wheel chair. IIRC you didn't accept my heartfelt apology. Oh well. Now you want to stick something up my donkey. Shame on you, not that you could EVER make it happen, but shame on you for even thinking like that.
"1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident."
How do you know that? I on the other hand think he was pissed. Surround by surely a large gathering of vendors, and customers do you really believe that by upsetting a table or two and politely asking them to leave, they would? Nah. I guess I'll to wait until I get to where I know I'm going and will ask Him myself how it came about.
As for him overturning "coffees" that's a new one on me, but coming from you, a Harvard Grad, it must be something you learned, that the Ivy league hasn't passed down to us common folks until just now. I'm wondering if it was something like a Starbucks, or more like Dunkin?
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
So riddle me this. In the final battle of good and evil, will there be any blood shed? Will Jesus bring Warriors or Pacifists? Will Christians like you be given Glorified bodies to join the fray or would you turn it down?
Silly me, when I read the Roman Road to Salvation and accepted it's teaching, I thought I was good to go. But what you're saying is that Warriors like myself are not Christian. Man am I in deep trouble.
As for Peter, had the Lord had not intervened, do you think he would have killed as many Romans as he could, and "saved" Jesus? Doing so would have defeated the whole purpose of his coming wouldn't it? So he didn't allow it. But Peter had a Warriors ethos at that time and place nonetheless and was willing and able to die for his brother.
CK
i believe those in the military who died protecting us are in paradise like the martyrs ofJesus!
You need to actually read the Bible and learn about Jesus Christ and his followers....turn the other cheek, love your enemies etc. [/QUOTE]
IIRC, our Lord and Savior opened up a big can of Whip Ass on the money changers in the Temple. I picture Jesus as a man made strong from laboring as a humble tradesman, a carpenter in fact, and fed up with what he'd been seeing. After reasoning with them, to no avail to stop what they were doing, He took a more serious approach. Totally out numbered, He had to “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome†and cleaned out the Temple.
I wonder if he did this in part, to tie into a later teaching when he said: "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." By extension that would include a whole lot of folks/friends served by First Responders who make that sacrifice on a daily basis.
My guess is that I won't find you in that line of First Responders when it's time to man-up and do whatever it takes, no matter the cost, but I'm sure they will be there for YOU.
CK
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbtJDNmqpUY[/QUOTE]
1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident.
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
As for me and first responders, etc. You already made clear your feeling way back when you said you would stand clear with your guns while someone dumped me out of my wheelchair on my ass....so take your "guess" about what I will or won't do and stick it up yours[/QUOTE]
It was about two years ago when our little conversation evolved into a discussion about you being dumped out of your wheel chair. IIRC you didn't accept my heartfelt apology. Oh well. Now you want to stick something up my donkey. Shame on you, not that you could EVER make it happen, but shame on you for even thinking like that.
"1) Jesus overturned the money changers tables and coffees in God's Temple and rightfully excoriated them for what they were doing. He hit, struck or physically harmed NO ONE....nice try co_opting that incident."
How do you know that? I on the other hand think he was pissed. Surround by surely a large gathering of vendors, and customers do you really believe that by upsetting a table or two and politely asking them to leave, they would? Nah. I guess I'll to wait until I get to where I know I'm going and will ask Him myself how it came about.
As for him overturning "coffees" that's a new one on me, but coming from you, a Harvard Grad, it must be something you learned, that the Ivy league hasn't passed down to us common folks until just now. I'm wondering if it was something like a Starbucks, or more like Dunkin?
2) Surrendering your life for another is indeed the greatest love one person can show another, but NOT when it involves violence or inflicting physical harm. Firemen, lifeguards, EMTs, nurses, doctors, absolutely....soldiers with guns trying to blast the other guys (who think THEY are just as right, and brave as you) does not qualify as Christian. Read the Bible account where, in the garden of Gethsemane Peter hacks off the ear of one of the soldiers coming for Jesus...what does Jesus say and do? Again, nice try and I rest my case...
So riddle me this. In the final battle of good and evil, will there be any blood shed? Will Jesus bring Warriors or Pacifists? Will Christians like you be given Glorified bodies to join the fray or would you turn it down?
Silly me, when I read the Roman Road to Salvation and accepted it's teaching, I thought I was good to go. But what you're saying is that Warriors like myself are not Christian. Man am I in deep trouble.
As for Peter, had the Lord had not intervened, do you think he would have killed as many Romans as he could, and "saved" Jesus? Doing so would have defeated the whole purpose of his coming wouldn't it? So he didn't allow it. But Peter had a Warriors ethos at that time and place nonetheless and was willing and able to die for his brother.
CK
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billryan
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It's utterly ridiculous how this thread devolved.
I'm going to make two points and then you kids can kreep throwing sand at each other.
1) If I was a Soldier and someone on the other side sliced my ear off, only to have his leader put it back on- I'm pretty sure I'd switch sides.
2) I believe, with all my heart that the strong have an obligation to protect the weak, just as the rich are obligated to the poor. Violence sucks. Killing sucks. Yet, standing aside and doing nothing when the weak need defending simply isn't an option.
I'm going to make two points and then you kids can kreep throwing sand at each other.
1) If I was a Soldier and someone on the other side sliced my ear off, only to have his leader put it back on- I'm pretty sure I'd switch sides.
2) I believe, with all my heart that the strong have an obligation to protect the weak, just as the rich are obligated to the poor. Violence sucks. Killing sucks. Yet, standing aside and doing nothing when the weak need defending simply isn't an option.
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billryan
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4422
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:20 pm
It's utterly ridiculous how this thread devolved.
I'm going to make two points and then you kids can kreep throwing sand at each other.
1) If I was a Soldier and someone on the other side sliced my ear off, only to have his leader put it back on- I'm pretty sure I'd switch sides.
2) I believe, with all my heart that the strong have an obligation to protect the weak, just as the rich are obligated to the poor. Violence sucks. Killing sucks. Yet, standing aside and doing nothing when the weak need defending simply isn't an option.
The Paras' Prayer
Give me, God, what you still have,
Give me what no one asks for;
I do not ask for wealth
Nor for success, nor even health --
People ask you so often, God, for all that
That you cannot have any left.
Give me, God, what you still have;
Give me what people refuse to accept from you.
I want insecurity and disquietude,
I want turmoil and brawl,
And if you should give them to me, my God,
Once and for all
Let me be sure to have them always,
For I will not always have the courage
To ask you for them.
I'm going to make two points and then you kids can kreep throwing sand at each other.
1) If I was a Soldier and someone on the other side sliced my ear off, only to have his leader put it back on- I'm pretty sure I'd switch sides.
2) I believe, with all my heart that the strong have an obligation to protect the weak, just as the rich are obligated to the poor. Violence sucks. Killing sucks. Yet, standing aside and doing nothing when the weak need defending simply isn't an option.
The Paras' Prayer
Give me, God, what you still have,
Give me what no one asks for;
I do not ask for wealth
Nor for success, nor even health --
People ask you so often, God, for all that
That you cannot have any left.
Give me, God, what you still have;
Give me what people refuse to accept from you.
I want insecurity and disquietude,
I want turmoil and brawl,
And if you should give them to me, my God,
Once and for all
Let me be sure to have them always,
For I will not always have the courage
To ask you for them.
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DaBurglar
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 4535
- Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:11 pm
I meant coffers not coffees, my tablet likes to "predict" what I'm typing before I finish and sometimes does that, and because coffees is a real word and not a mistake, it doesn't error out or color itself as a typo...it was, however a needed, if unintentional dose of levity and humor in an otherwise heavy thread.
I honestly do not recall any heartfelt apology, so if you did, my bad...but still I only brought that up as a retort, and as a clever segue into saying stick your guess up your donkey, which even if I could do that I would not, which is why I said for you to do it to yourself.
I would never presume to judge any individual vis-a-vis their standing before God and Christ, etc. What I meant is a person who claims to be now a follower of Christ really cannot justify nor condone violence, but what they might have done in the past can obviously be forgiven if they repent. Being Christian doesn't mean you have to always stand there and take it...you can run, block, dodge, corral, defend etc. Anything short of taking a life or harming would be fine with my conscience....but vengeance/retaliation is the Lord's province. Only you really know what's in your own heart...you and God that is...
When Christ returns as King (i.e. when the kingdom "comes"), yes indeed it will be as the head of a fiery army, since when he was first here it was as the lamb of God, to willingly sacrifice his perfect sinless life as a ransom for all mankind who were bound to sin and death. When he was resurrected, it was to take his place at God's right hand as executioner, judge and King. I'm pretty certain violence against the wicked satanic forces will indeed take place, but neither myself, nor you will be involved.
What do y'all think of the soldier in the true life story in the movie Hacksaw Ridge? Conscientious objector who nonetheless served and performed some of the bravest gutsiest stuff in the history of war, yet never took a life? If I could be or emulate anyone it would be that corpsman...and it's a general consensus among military and WWII historians that Okinawa was the most brutal bloody battle not just in the Pacific, but possibly in the entire war, behind only Stalingrad, maybe.
I honestly do not recall any heartfelt apology, so if you did, my bad...but still I only brought that up as a retort, and as a clever segue into saying stick your guess up your donkey, which even if I could do that I would not, which is why I said for you to do it to yourself.
I would never presume to judge any individual vis-a-vis their standing before God and Christ, etc. What I meant is a person who claims to be now a follower of Christ really cannot justify nor condone violence, but what they might have done in the past can obviously be forgiven if they repent. Being Christian doesn't mean you have to always stand there and take it...you can run, block, dodge, corral, defend etc. Anything short of taking a life or harming would be fine with my conscience....but vengeance/retaliation is the Lord's province. Only you really know what's in your own heart...you and God that is...
When Christ returns as King (i.e. when the kingdom "comes"), yes indeed it will be as the head of a fiery army, since when he was first here it was as the lamb of God, to willingly sacrifice his perfect sinless life as a ransom for all mankind who were bound to sin and death. When he was resurrected, it was to take his place at God's right hand as executioner, judge and King. I'm pretty certain violence against the wicked satanic forces will indeed take place, but neither myself, nor you will be involved.
What do y'all think of the soldier in the true life story in the movie Hacksaw Ridge? Conscientious objector who nonetheless served and performed some of the bravest gutsiest stuff in the history of war, yet never took a life? If I could be or emulate anyone it would be that corpsman...and it's a general consensus among military and WWII historians that Okinawa was the most brutal bloody battle not just in the Pacific, but possibly in the entire war, behind only Stalingrad, maybe.
