Fallen Marines

[notes1]

DB, i googled 'gun murders in us', went to CDC.GOV web site, where the most recent data was 11,208 gun homicides. i also used only 300m people in usa, when we know it is around 320m. you said you were surprised by how low the number was. here is another surprise, there are more white people shot by cops than black people. would not know it, because the media does not tell the full truth, only what supports their agenda.  i won't even begin to comment on the rest of your post. to ted's point about the original point of the thread, it was hijacked by an anti gun advocate. the original poster has a son, who is a sitting duck, located in an unprotected shopping mall.  his son served/serves our country to protect the very right that allows anyone to say anything about anyone. he puts his life on the line, to protect our freedom. his son's commander in chief, waited 5 days to lower the white house flag, while immediately coloring the WH, rainbow colors, after gay marriage allowed.  i do not own a gun (yet) and i did not serve our country, but i will defend those folks who are out there protecting me and i am tired of liberals chipping away at our rights, bit by bit. while at the same time, they can look at a sonagram of an unborn infant, and discuss how to kill it, without hurting their profits.

[DaBurglar]

 
Don't lose sight of the original topic of this thread. This is the Anything & Everything section.........and my spelling Chitcago was intentional, because it is smelly mess.....but so are many other cities.You say the USA "cannot just waltz into Mexico"......?    Thanks for pointing that profound, really hard to grasp point.......      Why would you even say this, instead of commenting on the actual POINT of my post....?     Where did I say anything about a "waltz"?     You are horrible at trying to rebut whatever I post........ Obviously for those of the reading audience who can extrapolate and think, when I put forth the idea that we should be dealing with the threat of the drug cartels AT least as vigorously as the middle eastern terrorist threat, it goes without saying the actual PROCESS of intervention would follow its own development......we had no qualms about "waltzing" into Iraq in 2003 under 100% false pretenses against a threat which did not exist (Nuclear and Bio weapons in Iraq), so intervening and taking out the evil and vicious drug cartels in Mexico, which are very REAL threats, should be significantly easier and more legitimate.Mexico is corrupt, at least as corrupt as Afghanistan, another "Waltz" involving US military forces........pointing this out only adds fuel to my argument for intervention.Not that anyone asked, but in actuality I am politically neutral.......I am neither Repug or Dunce-o-crat.   I am sickened by both parties continuous insulting of people's intelligence, and it is obvious to me now there are no viable solutions to the truly severe and pressing issues facing society, and the world today.       It is going to have to implode or explode, or maybe erode, and BOOM.......we start over again .With all the corruption existing in so many areas, and cities, and industries, and governing bodies, I think we all know that somehow, casinos are totally "bent" too......they just do a great job of hiding and diverting attention, keeping people like Ted and many others here at this forum "content", and CONVINCED ("deceived") that  THEY (the casino industry in general) are paragons of honesty and integrity while the rest of the world is not........I'm not swallowing that bilge anymore either......

[Tedlark]

If you won't swallow bilge anymore then may I suggest swallowing some humble pie?

So in 2003 when the United States went into Iraq wasit done with the backing of the United Nations?

The United States just can't "intervene" without just cause. With my having said this you'll probably just bring up Vietnam.

DaBurglar do you proudly display the American Flag on July 4th? I do.

[Galeygoo]

[QUOTE=Tedlark] 
Don't lose sight of the original topic of this thread. This is the Anything & Everything section.........and my spelling Chitcago was intentional, because it is smelly mess.....but so are many other cities.
[/QUOTE]DaB, my beautiful city is ANYTHING but smelly.   And yessir, many other cities are messes in one way or another; but don't ever call it smelly....

[Minn. Fatz]

[QUOTE=Minn. Fatz]June 2015: 9 shot and killed in a church in Charleston, SCFebruary 2015: 7 shot and killed in a home in Tyrone, MODecember, 2014: 6 shot and killed in Montgomery Co., PAOctober 2014: 4 shot and killed in a school in Marysville, WASeptember 2014: 7 shot and killed in a home in Bell, FLJuly 2014: 6 shot and killed in a home in Spring, TXMay 2014: 6 shot and killed in Isla Vista, CASeptember 2013: 12 shot and killed in Washington, DCJuly 2013: 6 shot and killed in Hialeah, FLJume 201: 5 shot and killed in a school in Santa Monica, CAApril 2013: 5 shot and killed, including an unborn child, in Manchester, ILJanuary 2013: 5 shot and killed in South Valley, NM; 3 shot and killed in a school in Hazard, KYDecember 2012: 27 teachers and children shot and killed in a school in Newtown, CTAugust 2012: 6 shot and killed in a church in Oak Creek, WIJuly 2012: 12 shot and killed in Aurora, COApril, 2012: 7 shot and killed in a school in Oakland, CAFebruary 2012: 3 shot and killed in a school in Chardon, OHDecember 2011: 6 shot and killed in a home in Grapevine, TXSeptember 2011: 4 shot and killed in Carson City, NVOctober 2011: 8 shot and killed in Seal Beach, CAJanuary 2011: 6 shot and killed in Tucson, AZJanuary 2010: 8 shot and killed in a home in Appomattox, VANovember 2009: 13 shot and killed in Ft. Hood, TXSeptember 2009: 6 shot and killed in Naples, FLAugust 2009: 3 shot and killed in Bridgeville, PAJuly 2009: 6 shot and killed in TN and ALApril 2009: 13 shot and killed in Binghamton, NYMarch 2009: 18 people and 4 dogs shot and killed in two incidents in AL and NCJanuary 2009: 6 shot and killed in Los Angeles, CA

July 2015: 5 soldiers shot and killed in Chattanooga; 3 shot and killed, 1 seriously wounded in Suwanee, GA[/QUOTE]July 2015: At least 2 shot and killed, 7 injured in Lafayette, LA

[DaBurglar]

DaB, my beautiful city is ANYTHING but smelly.   And yessir, many other cities are messes in one way or another; but don't ever call it smelly....

fair enough.....all LARGE cities stink in some way, and to chicago' credit, the meat packing district cleaned up its act way back when Upton Sinclair exposed them over 100 years ago......now the smell of Hot Dogs wafts its way from Wrigley and Commisskey......

[DaBurglar]

If you won't swallow bilge anymore then may I suggest swallowing some humble pie?

So in 2003 when the United States went into Iraq wasit done with the backing of the United Nations?

The United States just can't "intervene" without just cause. With my having said this you'll probably just bring up Vietnam.

DaBurglar do you proudly display the American Flag on July 4th? I do. In March 2003, using false information and pretenses, Only four countries (Britain, Australia and Poland, led by the USA obviously) went in and completely "TRASHED" the nation of IRAQ in 3 months, although it took much longer to hunt Saddam Hussein down and "officially" impose REGIME CHANGE.     At the end of that 3 month period when the US Military and Political leadership decided to simply "Declare" the war was over, then-president-puppet-of-the-combined-oil-and-religious-right-and-Israel-is-the-most-important-foreighn-policy-obligation-COALITION, George W. Bush, flew out to the middle of the ocean and screamed "MISSION accomplished!".....immediately after this declaration, the "REAL WAR" started and the casualties never really STOPPED after that.....Unlike all of you, I do not believe the US is infallible or without flaws......I do not believe that we are "entitled" to do whatever we want, fight whomever we think is "bad" and get rid of them simply because "We can".....I fully comprehend and understand the complexities of Geo Political dynamics, and that there are VAST, unforeseen and REAL consequences to fighting wars, ALL WARS.   The invasion of IRAQ, and subsequent ridiculous and absurd ("Criminal") occupation and program of "Nation building" was a total failure, total mess and totally a waste of untold LIVES, resources and especially MONEY.......the next time any of you fret and fume and cry and criticize over all the decrepit infrastructure in the USA (all those unsafe bridges, Highways and Dams, all the OBSOLETE and vulnerable power grids....and most chilling of all, all those obsolete and soon-to-be-unsafe NUCLEAR power plants), remember, all the HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of BILLION of dollars we literally "lost" in the IRAQI desert between 2003 and 2013, and marvel at the fact we could have had a BRAND new country with MANY Americans gainfully employed MAKING it "new" in the process.   I will not even address how many Americans could have been given full and complete, and meaningful, HEALTH coverage and Care with all the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS  the Government "gave" to Iraq to make that country even more backwards, violent and unsafe TODAY than it was when it was ruled by one of the worst dick-taters of the last 40 years......wow that is saying something.Why on earth more Americans are not absolutely LIVID over this sequence of events and situation is, in my opinion, exactly why we deserve to be hated, opposed, and condemned throughout the world.   The USA is decidedly no longer qualified to lead the world in anything or anywhere, until or unless we get our own crap in order ....And just to clarify, the reason most americans are clueless, or APATHETIC, about the reality of things like the above mentioned Iraq wasteland and how it relates to one small aspect of America's domestic problems, is this:   as long as the average American's electricity is working, so that his CABLE TV is working, and his Fridge (with his BEER and CHICKEN POT PIE) is working, and his computer with which he accesses the internet each night is working, he is simply too lazy and content and unmotivated.   Again, another reason the rest of the world resents us:   We have this amazing country with so much in it, and with so much to be thankful for under a system of government many in the world marvel at, and yet only one third of the typical voting public bothers to vote SOME of the time........we do not even care enough to exercise the right to vote that so many brave VOLUNTEER citizen soldiers DIED to preserve (in crap hole countries like IRAQ & Afghanistan no less).....   meanwhile, our poor veterans, the ones who deserve ANYTHING and EVERYTHING they need, are stuck with a decades old decrepit VA system that is in many areas so bad it is a crime, and when you look at the HUNDREDS of BILLIONS wasted in IRAQ and add to it the HUNDREDs of Billions wasted in Afghanistan, you get TRILLIONS of dollars lost to oblivion, money the USA never actually HAD to begin with, and add to that total the BILLIONS that will be spent for years to come taking care of (and rightfully, morally so) all the broken military people wounded in both wars  .........   So no Ted, right now I do not feel particularly "PROUD". nor justified imposing a flag on my neighbors' vision or line of sight....

[notes1]

the iraq war is a controversial subject. i understand the differeneces of opinion. but, i remember 9-11, many in the country wanted revenge, iraq had snubbed it's nose at UN sanctions and had used weapons of mass destruction before.according to wikipedia, there were 15 cases where IRAQ used weapons of mass destruction, namely chemical weapons. four countries were involved in the attack on iraq, but 36 countries,paricipated afterwards. the resolution to give bush the authorization to attack was signed by the following dems, including, clinton, kerry, feinstein, biden, dodd, schumer and the list goes. multiple countries own national security agencies deemed that iraq likely had WOMD, including usa, england, germany, france, isreal, etc. everyone saw the same information. of course the usa makes mistakes, but someone needs to lead. evil exists, disasters happen and they must be dealt with. ask the hundreds of thousands who have died or been misplaced by ISIS, partly due to usa non involvement. have more folks died because the usa was involved or did more die, without our involvement? i failed to mention, bush never vetoed a single rep. spending bill and fought two wars, off budget, on a credit card. very wrong! in my mind, the most disappointing mistake he made. a fiscal conservative's nightmare.  

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar under the First Ammendment you have the right to freedom of speech and you exercised that right with the sentence you wrote in bold font. Thank our forefathers for giving you the First Ammendment and then thank every person who has ever worn a uniform to defend our First Ammendment rights since 1787.

After reading what you wrote; I feel sad for you, I really do. Have you ever given thought to putting "expat" in front of your name? And no, that is not a reference to your belovedNew England Patriots either.   

[DaBurglar]

the iraq war is a controversial subject. i understand the differeneces of opinion. but, i remember 9-11, many in the country wanted revenge, iraq had snubbed it's nose at UN sanctions and had used weapons of mass destruction before.according to wikipedia, there were 15 cases where IRAQ used weapons of mass destruction, namely chemical weapons. four countries were involved in the attack on iraq, but 36 countries,paricipated afterwards. the resolution to give bush the authorization to attack was signed by the following dems, including, clinton, kerry, feinstein, biden, dodd, schumer and the list goes. multiple countries own national security agencies deemed that iraq likely had WOMD, including usa, england, germany, france, isreal, etc. everyone saw the same information. of course the usa makes mistakes, but someone needs to lead. evil exists, disasters happen and they must be dealt with. ask the hundreds of thousands who have died or been misplaced by ISIS, partly due to usa non involvement. have more folks died because the usa was involved or did more die, without our involvement? i failed to mention, bush never vetoed a single rep. spending bill and fought two wars, off budget, on a credit card. very wrong! in my mind, the most disappointing mistake he made. a fiscal conservative's nightmare.  
The Iraq war is not "controversial", it is a total fiasco that has the simple, coincidental (opportunistic for the perpetrators) feature of being pursued at a time when EVERYONE's judement was warped by feelings or anger, vulnerability, revenge and fear......they tell people all the time "never make major decisions when you are emotionally charged"....well, duh.Most democrats (and even some republicans) who wound up supporting the "Iraq War" later backpedalled when they explained that, given the national "MOOD" after 9/11 and the extent the Bush Administration was PUSHING and SELLING the (false) WMD Hysteria, it would have been political suicide to oppose it......which is total BS and why I an neither a Democrat or Republican.....the Neo Con Hawks in the Republican PArty just HAD to take our "really cool military" into the most inhospitable terrain in the world and trounce a conventional enemy (i.e. Saddams remnants of the Iraqi Military) to demonstrate to the world just how "Awesome" the USA Military was.....and the Democrats were too spineless and corrupt and hypocritical to do the right thing and at least bring the issue to DEBATE before handing the idiots at the Pentagon a Blank check.....Colin Powell, perhaps the only SANE man in the First G.W. Bush Administration's  (2001 -2004)  emphatically stated to Bush that "If you Break it, you own it (Iraq)".....of course, several months Before the actual Invasion of Iraq in March 2003, Powel, being the good soldier he is, subsequently and dutifully argued in front of the world (@ the UN)  using dubious photos and phony data, the URGENT NEED to remove Saddam from power before he used his hidden nukes and Biologicals (or worse, sold them to Al Qaeda, who he HATED and who HATED him, but never mind that little detail.)   Powel resigned from the Bush Administration before the second term of G.W. and it was due in no small part to his having to go before the world and make a case for something he KNEW was BS.    And his words were proven 100% correct......we BROKE IRAQ and we spent 10 years, nearly a Trillion Dollars and THOUSANDS of LIVES all for next to nothing......I donate both my time and MONEY to Veterans Groups and Organizations because the soldiers are the real Victims and Losers here (along with the Iraqi people).....I do this because both my Dad and Brother are veterans, My dad in Vietnam (another ABSURD waste) and My Brother was in Iraq from March 2003 when it began until the End of 2004 and he saw first hand the BS that went on with the whole initial Invasion, subsequent routing of the so-called formidable "Iraqi War Machine" which he said was "too easy", even with the US Technological edge, followed by the REAL WAR which began right after G.W. Bush yelling "Mission Accomplished" from a Carrier half a world away from Iraq!ISIS is a DIRECT result of the entire US Failed policy and effort in IRAQ (Obama is only slightly to blame for this, it mostly belongs with the Bush Admin. as well as the rest of the WORLD who refuse to do anything about ANYTHING.)  When you create a vacuum and then LEAVE, malevolent forces like ISIS typically fill the void, but at the same time, you cannot perpetually keep going back and maintaining large forces in such a area and situation, not without HUGE costs in lives and money.    It is easy to say "Hell yeah!  go and BOMB those A-holes (isis) and send in the Marines and Rangers (AGAIN) and (AGAIN)!!'    At some point you have to just do your best to cordon off the area and let the monsters devour themselves......