Cheating in the NFL, Deflategate - redux

[DaBurglar]

I am not a lawyer and I'm definitely not a New England Patriots fan. While I believe Brady and the Patriots probably had the footballs tampered with, I also believe that someone is considered innocent until proven guilty. A column by Mike Lupica, the esteemed New York Daily News sports columnist, provides food for thought on this matter. In a column found online today entitled, "Roger Goodell's overkill on Tom Brady DeflateGate suspension is offensive" he quotes a "noted sports attorney" who said "I’m sorry, but at the end of the day, there is still zero credible evidence that Brady had a hand in deflating those footballs... There is still no direct witness and no electronic evidence." This despite the brouhaha over the destroyed cellphone.   Here is a link to that column:

Roger Goodell's overkill on Tom Brady DeflateGate suspension is offensive

excellent post and 100% correct in the points it makes.....At this juncture, I believe that someone in the Pats locker room let some air out of a few balls (NOT the 11 out of 12 originally, and erroneously, reported.)   I believe that this has been done MANY times by MANY teams in the past, and this too has been confirmed by the numerous anecdotal (but of course, "off the record") stories that players past and present have related about ALL the antics and methods teams utilize to circumvent a few of the more innocuous (non critical) rules that the NFL employs......Ball pressure, both under and over inflated balls, has been used in the past to gain an advantage by many teams and individuals, same as "Stickum" has been utilized (illegally of course) by many famous receivers since the Super Bowl era began and the NFL becamse "PASS HAPPY".....the trick of course is not to get caught.The reason the Patriots have been a prominent and favorite target these last 8-9 years quite simply is due to their unprecedented and overwhelming success......they have put together a 15 year string of football excellence, year in year out, that defies belief almost when you consider all the things the NFL put in place starting in the early 1990s to make it DIFFICULT for teams to Dominate for more than a few years at a time, mainly the salary cap!    The fact that the Patriots have appeared in Seven super bowls in the last 19 years going back to 1996, won four of them, and have been in 10 AFC championship games, and every year are in contention for a title says all you need to know about the superiority of the people running the patriots (Belichick & co.) and the philosophy of the ownership (never EVER overpay for a player, that KILLS teams.)Proof the Patriots are head and shoulders above the rest of the league can be found in the infamous 2008 season.....Tom Brady goes down with a season (almost career) ending knee injury in the 1st quarter of the 1st game, and in steps unheralded Matt Cassel (a guy who had not even started in College at USC)....he led the Pats toa 11-5 record, which somehow that year was NOT enough to make the playoffs!!!!!   Still, what does that tell you about the coaching and the "system"?      Hence, it is obvious the NFL and a certain clique of jealous and petty owners who are sick of the PAtriots have gone after them with an intensity and zeal that other teams do not get......How else do you explain, Ray Rice only getting an initial 2 game suspension for belting his "wife" (on TAPE)  while Brady IMMEDIATELY is docked 4 games with no solid incontrovertible evidence?   Mr. Goodell was out to get him, that's how you explain it.....and the fact that Ray Rice subsequently was suspended for a year only AFTER the situation had become a clusterf8ck and Goodell had been lambasted and pressured by everyone in the USA with a wife or mother or daughter proves nothing .....

[Tedlark]

If the coaching and the system" are so great,then why all the cheating?

Funny, the Pittsburgh Steelers were more dominant in the 70's than the Patriots have been in the last 15 years and we don't hear the same stories about them as we do the Patriots.

Again; not only is Brady a cheater but a liar too.

[DaBurglar]

If the coaching and the system" are so great,then why all the cheating?

Funny, the Pittsburgh Steelers were more dominant in the 70's than the Patriots have been in the last 15 years and we don't hear the same stories about them as we do the Patriots.

Again; not only is Brady a cheater but a liar too.Ted, you are 100% biased and irrational simply because you hate ME, not the patriots.   Before I came along you never gave the patriots a second thought.And as has been reported and said over and over (you just choose NOT to consider it)  there has been a constant bending of the rules by almost every organization whenever a chance appears to gain an edge without getting caught.....you simply will not accept that the Patriots are NOT the only team to ever seek "an edge" by pushing the envelope on the rules as far as it will go.....most people with a clue call that competitive edge or just plain smart.     This thing with the footballs has been shown to be so minor and petty as to hardly even be worth the ruckus, but it is ONLY a story because it is the Patriots.And you do not know at all what you are talking about with your false analogy to the 1970s Steelers .... they were NOTORIOUS rule benders and breakers, but a HUGE difference back then is you did not have a 24/7 media coverage via TV, internet and all things in between that you have today, such that EVERYTHING gets reported and blown out of proportion.     The Steelers, with thugs like Mel Blount, Jack Ham and Jack Lambert were notoriously "dirty" on the field in their tactics and style.....and it is a sad, known fact that like MOST teams in the 1970s, the Steelers allowed many players to play while loaded up on painkillers (R.I.P. Mike Webster), something that would indeed be against the rules and policy today.    Professional sports writers throughout the decades prior to the 1980s  exercised a type of courtesy and simply did not make mountains out of mole hills like these hacks with a twitter feed do today.Do more research.....the accomplishments of the patriots since 1997 are without equal given the ultra competitive environment they now operate and compete in......no team in the 1970s or 1980s had to deal with this.....you need to understand the salary cap better and just how that makes dominating for more than 3 years extremely difficult, let alone 15 plus years!And new revelations just coming out now are revealing the NFL indeed was on a withc hunt with the Patriots.....a slew of emails released by the Patriots from February show the NFL was intentionally "leaking" false and misleading info and stories about the so called deflated footballs, and it shows that this has been a FARCE and a Fiasco in terns of a fair and unbiased investigation.Before Ted types another pointless word, he needs to read this latest article:http://sports.yahoo.com/news/patriots-- ... 10492.html

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar show me WHERE the Pittsburgh Steelers were CAUGHT bending the rules? And to show you that I am not biased against the Patriots and that I have thought about them before you entered into this forum, I was a fan of theirs back in the day when Steve Grogan was leading them down the field. I even read a book about him.   Teams in the 1970's didn't have the: training, dietary, physical conditioning, equipment improvements, indoor stadiums, electronic improvements, early entry players (i.e. college drop outs), practice squads, and more, that: today's teams such as your Patriots have.   As for painkillers, don't you think they're still being used today?    Again, you are just mad because it was your team that got caught.  

[DaBurglar]

typical, you did not even read the article i included, otherwise you'd just drop this absurd vendetta.....

  DaBurglar show me WHERE the Pittsburgh Steelers were CAUGHT bending the rules? And to show you that I am not biased against the Patriots and that I have thought about them before you entered into this forum, I was a fan of theirs back in the day when Steve Grogan was leading them down the field. I even read a book about him.Yeah right you were a fan.....I grew up watching Grogan, and back then they were hapless losers but I still rooted for them.   If you were such a "fan" why would you STOpP being one once they started winning?   And do not tell me its because they are such "cheaters" because they are not.....the Patriots have been simply scapegoated  for doing what EVERYONE else does but does not get persecuted.     You refuse to accept that things like SPYGATE (which again, was brought about by a vindictive ex-coach, Mangini, who was pissed at Belichick because his Jets were totally trounced by the PATS, so Mangini ratted them out for some "spying"......but it is a well known fact that ALL teams sought to "spy" on opponents going back to the 1950s, which is why practices often included extreme privacy and security.   Mangini, who was a assistant coach / coordinator on the Patriots when the alleged "spying took place", which means HE was also a party to it, and he benefitted from it because he was hired as a head coach the following year by the Jets based on the "success" he had a Patriot Coach, which, if that success was due to the alleged cheating that people like YOU assert, then Mangini in fact was hired because he too was beneficiary of the cheating.....no wonder you relate to this, it is called HYPOCRISY!!!   lol lol   Teams in the 1970's didn't have the: training, dietary, physical conditioning, equipment improvements, indoor stadiums, electronic improvements, early entry players (i.e. college drop outs), practice squads, and more, that: today's teams such as your Patriots have. This just feeds my argument.....the game back "in the day" (basically before the early 1990s when the current collective bargaining agreement took hold, and before all the current super strict regulations and rules were implemented)  was a lot more simple and less difficult to sustain a coherent dynastic team.    All these things you claim as improvements are in fact double edged swords......with all these medical advances comes HUGE costs.....teams have to hire a BEVY of support staff and "experts" they never used to have to worry about.....teams have staff dieticians pulling 6 figures whereas, when your 1970s steelers played, the trainer was the one responsible for the menu!    and you still refuse to address the Salary cap:   The 1970s steelers kept the same guys around because they COULD, there was no free agency to worry about so guys like Joe greene, lynn swann, franco harris  and everyone else had no where else to go!    Not so with the Patriots of 2001 thru today.....aside from Brady, look at the revolving door of names and stars, yet they continue to win at the highest level no matter what (or who) is on the field.In other words, it is a LOT more difficult just to own and run a team in today's NFL, let alone be good at it.....and to be as good as the PAts have been...??  phew....  As for painkillers, don't you think they're still being used today?    Again, you are just mad because it was your team that got caught.  This makes no sense.......it is a well known fact that, especially the last decade, the NFL has focused a lot of attention (as has the country) on the dangers of prescription drug abuse, and today's NFL teams are forced to adhere to very strict regulations and rules as to how they treat and dispense drugs to their players.   NOT so during the 1960s, 70s and into the 1980s.....there are so many cautionary (and tragic tales) of players who left the NFL back then only to lead lives of horrible desperation addled by substance abuse caused by the cavalier and liberal usage of painkillers.....Mike webster was someone I told you to look into, you obviously did not....look close to home then:  Walter Payton!   Even Joe Namath talks about how he was dosed day after day just to get his ass on the field because that is what fans paid money to see back then, how mere trainers (most of whom barely had a basic nursing degree) FREELY handed out potent drugs to whomever "needed" them, but of course, once a player was cut, too bad, you are on your own.....nowadays, a team cannot do that (or if they do they risk it all, and not just the player either!)

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar I know Mike Webster's case VERY WELL. I personally know football players who suffered brain injuries long before Mike Webster was diagnosed.    Free Agency led to a more competitive balance in the NFL than salary cap.   I know personally many former and current players in the NFL, including several from Walter Payton's team. I do have several stories about my interaction with Walter when he was alive, I have many stories about my personal interaction with other former and current players.    I watched the Joe Namath special in which he talked about his use of painkillers. I rooted for Steve Grogan because I was a fan of his and I was happy when his team won except for when they were playing the Steelers.    I will agree with you on one thing: an NFL team cannot just release a player for getting injured. I will say that your point about that was short, a rarity for you, and I could go into it deeper about just what a team has to do if they do release a player after getting injured.    I have no vendetta on this; you just fail to accept that Brady cheated, Belichick cheated, the Patriots as an organization cheated, and, Brady lied. Oh and also that the owner of the Patriots, after paying the million dollar fine, decided to open up on the NFL so he is classless as well. 

[Carcounter]

Ok, I am a lifelong NY Giants fan, but hold no grudges against the Pats. But I will say this. I have never been impressed with their supposed "dynasty". This last Super Bowl win was a result of a brain freeze by Pete Carroll. Everyone knows that, but kudos to Malcolm Butler who made the play. Up till then the Pats hadn't won a SB in what 10 years. They are in the playoffs every year, with a high seed because they have the good fortune of being in the AFC East with the Jets, Dolphins and Bills. When was the last time any of those teams were any good. I give them credit, but dynasty is too strong a word.

[Carcounter]

Years ago, when the old Giants stadium was built, rumor had it that the Washington Redskins would have a person tape the Giants practices from the roof of the Sheraton across Rt. 3. I don ' t know about that cause the Giants always had the Redskins number back then.

[DaBurglar]

Ok, I am a lifelong NY Giants fan, but hold no grudges against the Pats. But I will say this. I have never been impressed with their supposed "dynasty". This last Super Bowl win was a result of a brain freeze by Pete Carroll. Everyone knows that, but kudos to Malcolm Butler who made the play. Up till then the Pats hadn't won a SB in what 10 years. They are in the playoffs every year, with a high seed because they have the good fortune of being in the AFC East with the Jets, Dolphins and Bills. When was the last time any of those teams were any good. I give them credit, but dynasty is too strong a word.

the fact that the other teams in the AFC have stunk for so long is not the fault of the patriots...year after year after year the bills dolphins and jets (until 2009 when Rex took over and they were decent for a couple years), those teams had SUPER high draft picks and totally blew almost all of them.....nope, sorry, the failure of these teams only highlights even more just how good the pats have been at team building in the modern era.   and you too do not quite seem to understand just how good the pats have been at choosing and selecting the RIGHT people each year to give them the best chance at winning, something that is VERY hard to do these days.     This DYNASTY was not in any way dampered just because they went almost 10 years between Super Bowl wins number 3 and 4, because in between those two wins were two UNBELIEVABLY close and ridiculous super bowl losses to the Giants, both of which involved last minute drives to win it and both involved LUCKY LUCKY LUCKY catches by two different receivers!!!!!   No one remembers those games and it is why this Dynasty is even more special for the PAts because they could (should) have easily won those two games as well!!!!     And more than that, ask any NFL player who has been to the Super Bowl and they will tell you it is GETTING there that is the real hard part and accomplishment.......once you reach the Super Bowl it is a two week circus and carnival and the game is almost secondary to all else.You need to go back and look at the SF 49rs of the 80s and 90s, they played in a totally patsy division too, with the horrible Rams, Falcons and Saints in the old NFC west (before the expansion and restructuring to 4 divisions in 1999.)   

[DaBurglar]

The LAST word on cheating, which EVERYONE in the NFL does and has done:http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... ergnetMany other players have echoed Joe's sentiment and words.