73 Army cadets caught cheating.

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billryan
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73 Army cadets caught cheating.

Post by billryan »

As if it weren't bad enough that 73 Cadets got caught cheating on a math exam, it now appears that the Army is going to allow them to continue at the school, after undergoing a rehabilitation program.
Is this what we have sunk to? A Cadet does not lie, does not cheat, and does not allow other Cadets to do so. It's the honor code that is the very basis of a West Point education. To allow people who have admitted to dishonoring the Honor Code to graduate and become Leaders of Men is a disgrace.
This decision can not be allowed to stand.

Jstark
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Post by Jstark »

It's the honor code that keeps getting the US military losing wars. They follow rules while the enemy doesn't.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

billryan wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:32 am
As if it weren't bad enough that 73 Cadets got caught cheating on a math exam, it now appears that the Army is going to allow them to continue at the school, after undergoing a rehabilitation program.
Is this what we have sunk to? A Cadet does not lie, does not cheat, and does not allow other Cadets to do so. It's the honor code that is the very basis of a West Point education. To allow people who have admitted to dishonoring the Honor Code to graduate and become Leaders of Men is a disgrace.
This decision can not be allowed to stand.
BR, you are not accurately reporting here. Some of the accused have resigned while others are awaiting trial by a board of cadet peers. 72 of the 73 were freshmen, not upperclassmen and school leadership feels that those who admitted to the charges can be put back on the right path.

You forgot the word "steal" in your interpretation of the Honor Code.

In closing: those who cheated and admitted it and go on to careers in the United States Army, will have this black mark on their permanent military record. This is a difficult stain that will follow them yet they will take on that additional burden. That in itself says much about their character.

Eduardo
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Post by Eduardo »

At least it wasn't with the same woman this time.

billryan
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Post by billryan »

Tedlark wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 3:00 pm
billryan wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:32 am
As if it weren't bad enough that 73 Cadets got caught cheating on a math exam, it now appears that the Army is going to allow them to continue at the school, after undergoing a rehabilitation program.
Is this what we have sunk to? A Cadet does not lie, does not cheat, and does not allow other Cadets to do so. It's the honor code that is the very basis of a West Point education. To allow people who have admitted to dishonoring the Honor Code to graduate and become Leaders of Men is a disgrace.
This decision can not be allowed to stand.
BR, you are not accurately reporting here. Some of the accused have resigned while others are awaiting trial by a board of cadet peers. 72 of the 73 were freshmen, not upperclassmen and school leadership feels that those who admitted to the charges can be put back on the right path.

You forgot the word "steal" in your interpretation of the Honor Code.

In closing: those who cheated and admitted it and go on to careers in the United States Army, will have this black mark on their permanent military record. This is a difficult stain that will follow them yet they will take on that additional burden. That in itself says much about their character.
That is part of the reason they shouldn't be allowed to continue. What kind of asset will they be? No West Pointer will ever want them in a position of authority so they will get a million-dollar education and be separated as soon as possible.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom." - General George S. Patton

Ulysses S. Grant was a drunk who resigned his commission in the army only to return 7 years later after living in poverty. We all know how his army career turned out once he returned.

I understand your line of thinking but why would you then just limit it to cadets at West Point who have cheated on am exam? How about students who go on to be surgeons after they may have cheated on an exam in college? Would you really want someone performing a life or death operation on you who may have cheated on an exam in their freshman year of college? How about lawyers? Did you ask any of the lawyers who may have represented you over the years if they ever cheated on an exam freshman year of college? Lawyers, as officer's of the court, also take an oath but does this not count until after they are out of school?

olds442jetaway
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Post by olds442jetaway »

Unfortunately, the best lawyers are successful because they believe their own lies which makes it easier to convince others. I am sure there are exceptions somewhere. That said, Merry Christmas to all.

billryan
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Post by billryan »

Tedlark wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 7:13 pm
"I don't measure a man's success by how high he climbs but how high he bounces when he hits bottom." - General George S. Patton

Ulysses S. Grant was a drunk who resigned his commission in the army only to return 7 years later after living in poverty. We all know how his army career turned out once he returned.

I understand your line of thinking but why would you then just limit it to cadets at West Point who have cheated on am exam? How about students who go on to be surgeons after they may have cheated on an exam in college? Would you really want someone performing a life or death operation on you who may have cheated on an exam in their freshman year of college? How about lawyers? Did you ask any of the lawyers who may have represented you over the years if they ever cheated on an exam freshman year of college? Lawyers, as officer's of the court, also take an oath but does this not count until after they are out of school?

Because Cadets are held to a much higher standard than college students. Because college students don't take an oath to follow the Code. Because these Cadets have already shown they are incapable of living up to the standards twelve generations of Cadets have.
You are defending the indefensible.

Tedlark
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Post by Tedlark »

Have YOU ever cheated at or on something BR? Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. It is a bit ironic that a person who spent a couple years exploiting loopholes now condemns.

Are you saying that no one else, in those "12 generations of Cadets" has cheated? You are naive to believe so.

Edited to add: And yes, these Cadets are worth defending.

billryan
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Post by billryan »

I would not have made the cut at West Point. There is no way I could have lived with the Code for four years. This is why a West Point education is so valuable. Only the most honest of the finest is given the honor of graduating. All four years are a weening out process and these cadets failed in their first year.
It isn't about cheating on a test. It's about not being faithful to an oath they swore to uphold. In time, these people will be responsible for leading our sons and grandsons into battle. Let them go become Doctors or Lawyers. Let them learn what every Cadet knows.

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