Taj Mahal's Future

[OTABILL]

Interesting.

Strike at Taj Mahal casino raises questions about its future

I should have posted this under Atlantic City. Wayward mouse.

[DaBurglar]

You know, it is possible for BOTH sides in any issue, whether it is a STRIKE, a Election/Politics (like we have NOW), or even a war  to be BOTH 100% at fault and WRONG in their stated, practicing positions.I honestly feel that the TAJ Mahal situation, as it exists today with the current economic climate, is totally UNRESOLVABLE given the stated positions and objectives that each side brings to the table....In other words, either one side totally capitulates and/or drastically alters its position, or this property really is done.   Because, the bottom line, if people were flocking to it or if it were a vibrant legitimate resort destination, the current situation would not be happening.....the property is too far gone in almost everyway possible, and yes, we know how Donald Trump totally cooked this golden goose long ago with his idiotic business practices (read that article cited in another thread earlier), but that was THEN......this is NOW.I myself am totally disgusted with Local 54 top management......the STRIKE itself was their idea, and they could not have picked a more damaging time to implement it (damaging for EVERYONE especially themselves)....it is like Nuclear weapons, when you use them, YOU LOSE, period.  There is no winner.

[DaBurglar]

One other thing:Regarding the employee (only one, the bellman) cited in the article, the guy who says he "ONLY WANTS WHAT EVERYONE ELSE HAS". and states since the TAJ stopped paying for his health care he went to Obamacare and the cost difference is now "breaking him".....I would very very much like to see the actual numbers involved here:If the TAJ previously was paying for his healthcare (say prior to 2014) we need first to see what the company was providing and what it cost them .....  secondly, we need to see what this guy NOW has with obamacare and what it costs him.   Third, we need to remember (because it was NOT mentioned in the article) that TAJ offered to provide its employees with over $2000 in vouchers or other form of payment to pay for health insurance under the affordable care act.Now, unless this guy has himself and his 2 college attending daughters on some type of SUPER MAX DELUXE COVERAGE that covers everything from a splinter in the arse to Heart-Lung Transplants, how can the alleged cost difference be THAT HUGE, THAT SIGNIFICANT, to be blamed for putting him in such dire straits????Seriously, what is the actual cost difference?!?!?   If it is in the range I suspect, where he is paying around 800-1000 more PER YEAR for health coverage, then I am sorry:  800 bucks to 1000 bucks over the course of a year is NOT a catastrophic situation for a person who is willing to work as a Bellman in a large resort (they make good money)....Unless the difference is over 5000, honestly I do not buy the employee side of this story, otherwise the REPUBLICANS would be ranting NON STOP (far far more than they have been)  that OBAMACARE is a total farce.

[notes1]

I have yet to meet a union employee with negotiated health care benefits, at a profitable company, that did not have the best coverage, at a cost to the employee, that was well below what the average consumer pays. that is why when Obamacare was being devised, there was going to be a tax on 'deluxe' plans. the thinking was this tax would only get the high paid execs, instead they found, the overwhelming majority of deluxe plans were held by union workers. the unions complained and Obama delayed the deluxe tax until 2018 (after he left office).

now, if a union employee is working at a financially troubled company or a state/local government job, where the finances are bad, they are being required to pay more and they do not like it. benefits are not guaranteed, many are now finding this out.

as far as the cost of having employer provided health insurance and Obamacare, there is a huge difference in both cost and coverage.

according to article on CNBC.COM, yesterday; 11 million out of the 40 m uninsured have signed up for Obamacare but 10% did not pay the premium, 90% who are getting coverage get a government subsidy (others are paying their cost), 70% get the 'silver' plan and find out they can not afford the co-pays and deductibles. another problem people wait until they have known problem, sign up, get their treatment, then stop paying.

I believe the stories where healthcare and insurance costs are wiping people out financially. the cost of higher education, government and healthcare are going to bankrupt this country. there are simply no cost controls in effect.   

[DaBurglar]

I have yet to meet a union employee with negotiated health care benefits, at a profitable company, that did not have the best coverage, at a cost to the employee, that was well below what the average consumer pays. that is why when Obamacare was being devised, there was going to be a tax on 'deluxe' plans. the thinking was this tax would only get the high paid execs, instead they found, the overwhelming majority of deluxe plans were held by union workers. the unions complained and Obama delayed the deluxe tax until 2018 (after he left office).

now, if a union employee is working at a financially troubled company or a state/local government job, where the finances are bad, they are being required to pay more and they do not like it. benefits are not guaranteed, many are now finding this out.

as far as the cost of having employer provided health insurance and Obamacare, there is a huge difference in both cost and coverage.

according to article on CNBC.COM, yesterday; 11 million out of the 40 m uninsured have signed up for Obamacare but 10% did not pay the premium, 90% who are getting coverage get a government subsidy (others are paying their cost), 70% get the 'silver' plan and find out they can not afford the co-pays and deductibles. another problem people wait until they have known problem, sign up, get their treatment, then stop paying.

I believe the stories where healthcare and insurance costs are wiping people out financially. the cost of higher education, government and healthcare are going to bankrupt this country. there are simply no cost controls in effect.   I agree with all of this, more or less.....I was primarily questioning the guy-example which the article featured to drive home its point (which I "think" was tepidly pro-union/ LOCAL 54, although I could be wrong.)    I don't really know what the TOTAL score is with that person, or others, its just something did not quite add up with what was being presented......I have spent a lot of time at the TAJ, know many of its workers and have heard many many stories of personal "woe" and versions of what is, or is not, going on, and who is at fault, and who is the bad guy, etc.      Its a colossal mess, truly:   WHAT WAS NOT MENTIONED HERE IS THAT IN THE TAJ MAHAL's CASE, it is not just simply "employee health care", but they are also striking because of the still sore, and unresolved, court battle where Icahn was allowed to cease and do away with paying into Pension and Retiree Health benefits which were outrageously high....the above reference I made to issuing vouchers for up to $2000 applies to current active employees.    Health care costs, on so many fronts and in so many ways, are KILLING this country.Here is a (genuine, sincere) question for you though, since you favor less regulation, less government, etc:How do you control costs in the things you cited (healthcare, Higher education etc)  without COST CONTROLS that have to be set and regulated and enforced by the very government(s) we need to limit???     Since I agree with you that these things are out of control and are outrageously expensive and killing us far beyond anything that is reasonable, I am sincerely interested in what you have to say!

[notes1]

not going to get into a multi post dispute, here are my feelings.

all three areas of out of control spending (gov't, college, health care) are largely funded through taxes, gov't loan guarantees, gov't funding/grants, gov't regs (remember, the supreme court said Obamacare was a tax). in other words, a lot of the money comes from taxes. in other words, it is controlled by pols.

there is simply no incentive for gov't to cut costs, need more money, increase taxes. want to go to an overpriced college, get a loan guarantee. devise a healthcare program, which is really a wealth redistribution plan. want to get re-elected, add a gov't program that will get you more votes.

one does not need the gov't to have cost controls. companies/consumers do it everyday. it called living within your means. computers and other electronics have come down on price, along with many other consumer goods. can you think of anything the government touches, where the price ever drops or the program/agency has ceased to exist?

I too have a long history at the TAJ, used to go every month for years. casino operators, local gov't officials and the unions, all deserve some credit for AC's demise. but, we have had steel mills, airlines and lots of other companies go out of business or fall on hard times. once other states decided casinos were a good revenue source, AC was doomed.

[DaBurglar]

Meh......you had me hopeful at first.I agree with some of this last post, some I don't especially the whole government is behind or to blame for everything....I'm guessing you never really needed any help with anything in life, and that is great.   But the sad fact is in this country without much of what the government offers in terms of "help" for higher education or healthcare, a huge segment of society would be totally screwed.     The Supreme court said a lot of things about Obamacare, not just that it was merely a "tax" .... and calling it wealth redistribution is extreme......given the latest report I saw in Today's newspaper that the wealth GAP is again WIDER this past year, with the 1% sliver seeing their wealth increase by nearly 8%, while the 99% saw anemic 3% growth (although at least there was GROWTH this past year!)    This income gap, like out of control costs in Healthcare and College, is NOT healthy for the long term.I am 100% in agreement with you though on the relationship between politics, spending, the inability of the government to control it and elections......this is how it has been working since the 1980 election when federal deficits BALLOONED to outsize proportions.

[notes1]

'never really needed any help with anything'. grew up in a house with one income, 7 kids, 1 bathroom, everybody paid their own way to catholic high school and those who went to any college, also paid for it themselves. father died at age 50, with most kids still at home, including a 4 year old. we were brought up to be responsible, bigotry not allowed, solve/stay out of trouble, work from an early age and do not count on others to carry you. no different than most every other family around us. that was the norm.

a progressive tax system, which I agree with, is wealth redistribution. note, it is under the most liberal POTUS in modern times, that the income and wealth gap has grown as much as it has. relationship? in over 40 years, never not paid SS, state/fed taxes, just like many from my era. gave much to charity to help those in need (catholic guilt).

I have listened to progressives deride 'trickle down' and it has it's problems, but how is trickle up working, not so well.

you say it is human nature to blame others for one's mistakes, pretty sad if you believe that is ok. I would argue that once it became acceptable to do so, was the beginning of our problems.   

[olds442jetaway]

I find it amazing Notes that my upbringing while not identical to yours seems to have served us the same values and now similar political philosophies. We had one family income, 4 children in the home, both parents had severe health problems in their 40's and the children had to pitch in to help. We all worked and started at an early age. My first was picking strawberries at age ten. Never not paid any tax or other govt obligations, paid my own way through UCONN with part time jobs and just a 3 month loan of a few bucks from parents. I was 6 before we had our first car and it was old and well used. Parents taught us to save early on even when things were tight. Something always got saved for a rainy day which always did come. We were taught beyond all else to respect elders, law enforcement, volunteer our services in the community, church, and school, and always give something to charity no matter what your own circumstances were. My mom always said there is always someone worse off than we are. Both parents had grown up in the depression and learned how to stretch things and innovate or make do. Never asked for anything from society and dad a WW2 vet never even joined the VA until a few years ago. He just figured others needed it more than he did. So that is how it goes. I wonder how many households today subscribe to the same or similar values. I am not polishing my own stone here, I am really just comparing back when to today. Speaking of values, some of the stories by way of my wife by way of her first graders would shock everyone as to their home life or lack therof, and how many of their parents act too. I won't go into all of the details, but my biggest peeve is with the parents who pull their kids out of school to go on vacations for a week or a two at a time when it is not school vacation time. They think nothing of it and expect the school or teachers to make allowances for the child's absence. Yeah right.....

[notes1]

olds, I love hearing stories like yours, especially the part where all the kids had to pitch in and respect for authority. all the kids in our house learned at an early age to change diapers (the one bathroom always smelled like a diaper bin, no throwaways back then), cook, clean and earn money, no allowance. my dad also served in WW2, died at a young age and I miss him everyday. here is the thing, I do not regret my upbringing. parents did everything they could, took nothing for themselves. I owe them.

I/m/o, your wife's job, was one of the first to feel the effects of the progressive movement. lack of respect for teachers, lack of involvement by parents and greater power given to administrators.

many things in life have changed for the better, but some things have changed for the worse.