Tell me WHY?

[MikeA]

Mike A., So for my real question since you were just there:  In your opinion where is  the good VP downtown?  DDB, DW and JoB?   I have plans for Sept. 7 th. thru 11th.  
I know for a fact that from last weeks visit, Main Street Station does have most of the quarter games at Positive Return.  You might have to look around a bit, but you can most likely find them there.  Your best bet though is to keep a close eye on VPFree.  Things can change daily and monitors are assigned and make regular updates to that database.

[EDC1977]

Mike A., So for my real question since you were just there:  In your opinion where is  the good VP downtown?  DDB, DW and JoB?   I have plans for Sept. 7 th. thru 11th.   BigSteve, hope to see you there. Have plans also to visit LV with family and friends. Perhaps we'll cross paths. Playing mostly at Sams but not exclusively as I occasionally go elsewhere to get my VP fix and might check out the Decatur action this trip. I'm very wary though due to gas prices being so high. 1 trip out and back from Calif will set you back $150. Thats money better spent on entertainment, not oil company tycoons getting fat at our expense.

[7come11]

I was recently, over the 4th, in St. Louis.  None of their casinos had more than just a few 9/5 machines and only a few 1$ 9/6 games.  I won't be back
 
Very True, I live in St. Louis and the only ones I know of are 2 small banks of machines that pay full at Harrahs. 
 
None of the other casinos have full pay.  The one difference in St. Louis as was asked in the original question is that there are a ton of VP machines.
 
That said, I've never been to a casino anywhere that has many full pays. Not that I've been to casinos all over the country but not that I'd plan a vacation based on finding a casino with full pay VP.  Though I am going to Tahoe Sunday and hear Bill's has a lot of full pay.

[MikeA]

Honestly, my opinion is that it isn't so much "greed" that is driving the casinos to lower pay tables as it is survival.  There is no doubt that the fuel crunch is keeping more and more people away from Vegas.  When we were there over the Fourth, I don't think the casinos were nearly as crowded over the weekend as they usually are.  Part might be due to the heat, but I think more had to do with the cost of getting out there either by land or air!Casinos that I've played VP in the past with PE games had either removed the machines or changed the pay tables at least at the level I play (Main Street Station, Arizona Charlies) and the black jack tables have also changed...some for the better and some for the worse (Plaza definitely for the worse for the players by switching from double deck to 4-deck...Binion's and Fremont for the better with 3:2 double deck 24/7 at $5).I just happened to notice the paytables though.  I hope that trend ceases...both the high cost of travel AND the deterioration of the VP.  It's harder or impossible to tell what is being done with slot machines on the payouts, but my wife didn't do as well this trip as she usually does.  Might have been coincidence but I doubt it.

[royal flush]

the same way the made it "impossable" to ge a room as though they were doing us a favor we can find new things to do ie golf

[EDC1977]

Casinos that I've played VP in the past with PE games had either removed the machines or changed the pay tables at least at the level I play   OK Mike, you've got me confused a tad.  Your usage of PE refers to"positive expectations"? or "pick em"? I remember you asking about PE games in Laughlin and I could only think of pick-em or all-american. Several casinos with positive return machines there but doubtful few if any will have pick-em.

[MikeA]

[QUOTE=MikeA]Casinos that I've played VP in the past with PE games had either removed the machines or changed the pay tables at least at the level I play   OK Mike, you've got me confused a tad.  Your usage of PE refers to"positive expectations"? or "pick em"? I remember you asking about PE games in Laughlin and I could only think of pick-em or all-american. Several casinos with positive return machines there but doubtful few if any will have pick-em.[/QUOTE]When I use "PE" I'm talking about Positive Expectation.....paytables that return over 100% if played perfectly.There was confusion with the term "Full Pay" which just means that the paytable is the best the casino offers <sigh>.   I vowed never to use that term again.

[bigsteve5273@yahoo.c]

Mike A.,  It'd be terrific if we crossed paths in Vegas.  I'd like to see a Blackjack master in action.   Incognito of course.  As the date approaches I'll keep everyone posted.  Right now I can hardly wait for Eduardo's trip report to come rolling in.  Thanks for the Main Street Station tip.  Perhaps the best priced buffet downtown, also.

[scorpio2]

on casinogaming.com bob dancer has great articles.seems to play at gvr around vegas,probably better pay tables.

[shadowman]

Unfortunately, the payables that Dancer plays aren't the same ones most of us play ... unless, of course, you play $5 and up denoms. With the emphasis on "up".