Why are we all so glum?

[Rebus]

With regard to vpfree2.com, I have never found the info to be that current, especially in CET properties where they have made significant changes to their VP machine inventory.
Well vpFREE2.com makes updates when people using the site let them know what to change. If no one does so, the site doesn't get updated.

However, it looks to me like all the CET LV casinos have been updated in vpFREE2 at least to reflect the 2013 increases to coin-in needed for each tier credit.

[Vman96]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]With regard to vpfree2.com, I have never found the info to be that current, especially in CET properties where they have made significant changes to their VP machine inventory.
Well vpFREE2.com makes updates when people using the site let them know what to change. If no one does so, the site doesn't get updated.

However, it looks to me like all the CET LV casinos have been updated in vpFREE2 at least to reflect the 2013 increases to coin-in needed for each tier credit. [/QUOTE]

I'm tryin' billyjoe!

I have made significant updates in the past ~6 months (post CET VP overhaul) to...

Tunica
Joliet
Hammond
North Kansas City (all casinos with little/no updates for the last 18 months! )
Harrah's/Flamingo/Planet Hollywood/(no change at Rio)/Bally's

I didn't do a good swipe of Caesars, but what I saw outside of the high limit room wasn't reportable either. I didn't take a good look at Paris either. More important things to play. Quad had 9/5 DDB w/Ultimate X on the floor and 6/5 Super Aces spin poker at the bar, but those really aren't that reportable either...

With some of the overhauls, KC for example, it sometimes took close to an hour to document. Not many volunteer because like you, wouldn't people just rather play the game? And a majority that do sure don't look for 9/7 TDB, and other less common variants like I do.   

Last week after going to a Cardinals baseball game, I scoured Lumiere Place for over an hour because of an ownership change. Found a ton of reportable games, including 9/6 DDB (98.98%) bartops for nickels?!?!?! No 9/7 TDB though, best game was 9/6 Bonus Deluxe (99.64%), or 9/6 DDB with Quick Quads (99.65% w/QQ) (one of Bob's favorites). Lengthy VPFree2 updates should appear shortly.

Out of curiosity, I counted how many "updates" were mine or not for the last 100 pages of "What's New?". This stretches back to about November. I ignored comments, host changes, etc. The count isn't probably perfect, but I got 134 of the 692 changes, which is roughly 19% made by myself. I'm doing a lot of work for nothing here...

And this doesn't included the STL changes that have got backlogged...probably about 20 more. And when you are updating as much as I am, nothing pisses me off more than changes that get ignored (mainly my home casinos earlier this year).

[Rebus]

And when you are updating as much as I am, nothing pisses me off more than changes that get ignored (mainly my home casinos earlier this year).Obviously something went wrong if your vpFREE2 updates didn't get done. If that happens, I highly recommend you let the site owner know about it. He will investigate and make sure they get done. Use the Contact Us link to communicate with him.

[Rebus]

I should add that Vman's scouting paytables and reporting to vpFREE2 should be appreciated by all video poker players. Thank you, Vman!

[olds442jetaway]

I should add that Vman's scouting paytables and reporting to vpFREE2 should be appreciated by all video poker players. Thank you, Vman!

     Ditto!!

[Vman96]

[QUOTE=Vman96]And when you are updating as much as I am, nothing pisses me off more than changes that get ignored (mainly my home casinos earlier this year).Obviously something went wrong if your vpFREE2 updates didn't get done. If that happens, I highly recommend you let the site owner know about it. He will investigate and make sure they get done. Use the Contact Us link to communicate with him. [/QUOTE]

I definitely will in the future when initial updates go awry.

But in the cases I'm mentioning, the updates weren't major. The biggest thing is a 97.36% Bonus Deuces Wild progressive that occasionally turns positive (over 1% meter on deuces plus smaller meters for higher payoffs), like last week without me hitting the deuces for $450...dammit. The funny thing is...my mother, major penny slot addict, pointed out that this game was the deuces wild game she liked to play when she would play video poker. I wasn't aware of it before her. I just wish Mom believed in random outcomes more slash realize the penny slot machines she plays suck her money away a lot faster...

[QUOTE=Rebus] I should add that Vman's scouting paytables and reporting to vpFREE2 should be appreciated by all video poker players. Thank you, Vman!

     Ditto!![/QUOTE]

Thanks!!

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar] 
But as I said many times before........playing video poker in Vegas from the mid 1990s thru 2005 or so, you could very well hold your own and even make a small profit, even without resorting to Bob dancer;s INTENSE ANALRETENTIVE system and strategies (as good and sound as they are/were, they require a lot of work and vigilance and take a lot of the "fun" factor out of it and turn it into work.....its his job and he's good at it but still...)I am glad, at least, you plopped the whole quote into your post, that way people can see I am not "attacking" you, just being a smart-azz while serving up some compliments as well....Everything else you have posted in this particular thread I agree with, even the part where you serve back at me the underhanded remark that I am in the class of players who were good enough to ...."SURVIVE" ....15 years ago but not good enough to...."SURVIVE"...even today.    In this case, your use of the analogous term "SURVIVE" actually means "to PROFIT" (or at least break even).....just want to clarify that first and foremost because, I believe at the heart of any disagreement we have over this, is a simple matter of perspective and plain old individuality and personal preference (and perhaps even a difference over what constitutes "UTILITY" to use a economics term.)First and foremost, I make clear the distinction and difference when I state that this is your chosen "JOB" or occupation, even "profession".....this happens to NOT be my chosen JOB or profession, so we probably should just leave it at that, but that is not very satisfying nor useful.   Besides, there are many other JOBS or professions in which it really is NOT possible to have people who do it for their livelihood debating people who do it for fun or recreation or as a distraction or as a form of socializing or ....whatever......as an example, I do not know many "recreational" firefighters, or "recreational" Cardiologists, nor do I know any dentists who are in the business because they want to "meet new friends or hang out and have fun with existing friends".....you get the point.   We are still missing something, though, amidst all this discussion and perspective sharing and trying to define what is the "best" way to spend time in the casino playing VP.......I am essentially the same person and player I was 15 years ago, and by that I mean my mental abilities are still the same (or sharper since I am 15 years wiser)....I also have a lot more time and money to devote to playing video poker.Soon after I first started playing Las Vegas video poker in 1992, after I had graduated from Harvard with a degree in both Economics and Government and had been working my first job as Marketing Coordinator for a international Corporation in Los Angeles,  and almost immediately I played using what we now know today as perfect strategy.....I was fortunate in that (1) I had a friend who's father was from Las Vegas and had been in the casino business almost from the start (1951), and who told me right off that Video Poker was the best game to play...IF I was willing and able to do some simple preparation and legwork and IF I was able to manage my limited funds responsibly;  and (2) VP in 1992 was a much more "player" friendly game and much more simplified as well as potentially boring because there were not all the variety and versions we see today....and (3) the knowledge and insight my friend/his dad shared with me was NOT common knowledge back then, nor did we have the internet and computer simulations we do today whereby anyone can become a very strong player in little time.As someone has already stated, it is still possible to find good paytables in Nevada, and I myself have repeatedly said this before, but it is not anything like it used to be and it requires conscious effort and planning to be at one of the remaining places that still have good paytables.   I no longer live in either California or Nevada, and while I am older and wiser and wealthier, I am not physically healthier or more mobile (the opposite is the case, and while I do many things to maintain my health and minimize harm, I personally have a lot of things I am not in control of that impact my choices and pursuits in life, ergo one reason I have been playing in AC these past 4-5 years while only being Nevada a few times is simply a matter of mobility.)   If I was able to play 100% of the time in and around Nevada, I most likely would not be posting what I have been posting on this forum since I first showed up.....it is that simple.   I would still be the same player I was, and still showing a profit (or at least breaking even or very low losses, etc.)   This is not rocket science, and if VP is set up and functioning the way it is supposed to be, then it is just a matter of putting forth the effort (or close to it) that people like BOB DANCER put forth to achieve similar results......What my issue has been and remains is this:   Kn owing what I know and experienced, the results that I have seen ( as well as what other players I know have seen) in Atlantic City is so far and away DIFFERENT and outside any statistical expectation that I have ben forced to SUSPECT something else has been added to the previously simple and straightforward concept of playing Video Poker...thats it.

[olds442jetaway]

What I would still like to know and this is very difficult to find out is are there an equal number of players over an equal number ( millions) of hands that are having returns several percentage points above the norm ( let's say 3 points or more above 96-99% returns)which would be average for recreational players? If there are, then I would just say that you and I among others are just unlucky and the returns to norms for us may not be for years, decades, or even more than a lifetime.
     On the other hand, if there are no or very few players in the above category which means having returns several points above where they should be, then I would have to conclude that there is a distinct probability that the programs in the vp machines do not match what you would expect from the paytables. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever be able to get accurate information in answer to the above question.

[spxChrome]

     On the other hand, if there are no or very few players in the above category which means having returns several points above where they should be, then I would have to conclude that there is a distinct probability that the programs in the vp machines do not match what you would expect from the paytables. Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever be able to get accurate information in answer to the above question.

We won't get a direct answer from casinos or mfg but if you talk to any of the regulars the answer is always the same. They just don't play the way they used to for whatever reason. You use to not be able to get a seat on a weekend night at my local casino on a bank of 10 9/6 DDB progressive. Now you will be lucky to find one person playing on a Friday or Saturday night. Sadly casinos can't figure out the tighter they get the more money they loose. So in an effort to raise profits they just run everybody away and go bankrupt. They would rather make a quick $100 from 1 person and have that person never to return rather than to take $1 from 1,000 people and have them keep coming several times a month.

[MrsGVP]

So funny...and it's prolly true,which is the really sad thing!