Planning for a better year in 2013...

Did you hit any jackpots? Did you get a great comp? We all want to know!
BillyJoe
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Re: Planning for a better year in 2013...

Post by BillyJoe »

the only way to be ahead is to quit playing.  Otherwise , you are just losing less which is a good thing compared to no plan at all
I have to disagree, BR. If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP. If, however, all you play is low volatility games like JOB, and have a bad streak, it is tough to recover. You have to be able to continue to play that game until the math 'catches up' with you. That may not occur until your bankroll is exhausted or your gaming trip is over.  

royal flush
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Post by royal flush »



just play 100% + games even with comps/points, play them correctly using this site for practice, playing within ones bankroll/ "risk tolarance, avoiding all negative total return games

shadowman
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Post by shadowman »

 I have to disagree, BR. If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP. If, however, all you play is low volatility games like JOB, and have a bad streak, it is tough to recover. You have to be able to continue to play that game until the math 'catches up' with you. That may not occur until your bankroll is exhausted or your gaming trip is over.  


 
There's no guarantees you will ever hit the big hands playing a high volatility game. If the game is negative, it is negative. You cannot will a bad bet to produce big winners.
 
If you've won on negative games you've been lucky, billyjoe. You didn't make anything happen with your win/loss goals. You are giving bad advice. Better to accept that you have been lucky than to lead unsuspecting people down a garden path to big losses.

BillyJoe
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Post by BillyJoe »

[QUOTE=billyjoe] I have to disagree, BR. If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP. If, however, all you play is low volatility games like JOB, and have a bad streak, it is tough to recover. You have to be able to continue to play that game until the math 'catches up' with you. That may not occur until your bankroll is exhausted or your gaming trip is over.  


 
There's no guarantees you will ever hit the big hands playing a high volatility game. If the game is negative, it is negative. You cannot will a bad bet to produce big winners.
 
If you've won on negative games you've been lucky, billyjoe. You didn't make anything happen with your win/loss goals. You are giving bad advice. Better to accept that you have been lucky than to lead unsuspecting people down a garden path to big losses.[/QUOTE]
A few points in response, Shadow...
1) Yes, I do consider myself lucky ANYTIME I win at VP on ANY game, regardless of the EV. Just playing a positive EV paytable does not guarantee that you will win.  
2) I am not giving advice - I am sharing an approach that I use, and have found to be successful. I don't even have a garden, much less a path through it.  
3) I have had many winning VP sessions playing negative EV VP games WITHOUT getting a large AWAK or RF hand in that session. I look at it this way - every 250 credit quad that I receive, versus a 125 credit quad from a positive EV JOB game, allows for 25 'free' plays in that session. And, if you get enough small quads in a session, you can reach your Win goal.  
 
Having said that, I am sure that 'the math' would benefit me greater, long term, by pounding away, 6 hours a day on a 4-5 day gaming trip, on a 9/6 JOB game. Doing that, however, would void me of my primary reason for taking the gaming trip in the first place - to have fun.

shadowman
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Post by shadowman »

Billyjoe, 9/6 JOB is also a negative game. Not sure why you bring it up as the math will also indicate losses over time.


 
As for not giving advice ... this is what I read ...
 
"If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP"
 
 ... sounds like advice to me. Sounds like you are promoting the falsehood that loss limits will change the EV. Maybe you didn't intend it as advice but that is the way I read it, hence my comment.

BillyJoe
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Post by BillyJoe »

Billy oel, 9/6 JOB is also a negative game. Not sure why you bring it up as the math will also indicate losses over time.


 
As for not giving advice ... this is what I read ...
 
"If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP"
 
 ... sounds like advice to me. Sounds like you are promoting the falsehood that loss limits will change the EV. Maybe you didn't intend it as advice but that is the way I read it, hence my comment.
I understand, Shadow. I did not mean to infer that 9/6 JOB was a positive EV game (although I probably said that), but in the context of this discussion, I was using it as an 'opposite' to TDB. This would probably be more accurate if we were talking volatility, not EV.
 
As far as my quote, that was in response to BR's post of 
" the only way to be ahead is to quit playing
". 
I, honestly, do not agree with his statement. I share my approach to Money Management as the way that I attempt to stay on the positive side. 
 
The author of this thread was asking for ideas - I obliged.   

DrawingDead
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Post by DrawingDead »

I think on most VP machines, 98.7% payback or better, you can tell fairly quickly if that machine will hit anything on your first $20. Basing this on $.25 denomination. If I don't hit anything putting 20 bucks in that machine, I move on. What is the sense in pouring 20 after 20 on one machine? I see this all the time and it drives me nuts. Just move on to another. A player puts 60 bucks in a .25 machine to win 62.50? It makes no sense. Makes more sense to put 60 bucks in a .50 machine and double your 4 of a kinds.

jm002546
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Post by jm002546 »


[QUOTE=shadowman]Billy oel, 9/6 JOB is also a negative game. Not sure why you bring it up as the math will also indicate losses over time.


 
As for not giving advice ... this is what I read ...
 
"If you take the large wins from higher volatility games when they occur, and are disciplined enough to halt losing sessions, you can finish ahead in VP"
 
 ... sounds like advice to me. Sounds like you are promoting the falsehood that loss limits will change the EV. Maybe you didn't intend it as advice but that is the way I read it, hence my comment.
I understand, Shadow. I did not mean to infer that 9/6 JOB was a positive EV game (although I probably said that), but in the context of this discussion, I was using it as an 'opposite' to TDB. This would probably be more accurate if we were talking volatility, not EV.
 
As far as my quote, that was in response to BR's post of 
" the only way to be ahead is to quit playing". 
I, honestly, do not agree with his statement. I share my approach to Money Management as the way that I attempt to stay on the positive side. 
 
The author of this thread was asking for ideas - I obliged. As Shadow said, there is NO strategy, management, ....NADA that can give you an expected return better than than the pay table provides.  You are doing an injustice to suggest otherwise.  And no one can play perfectly, so one can only expect to approach the return from the low side and never quite achieve it. [/QUOTE]

BillyJoe
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Post by BillyJoe »

As Shadow said, there is NO strategy, management, ....NADA that can give you an expected return better than than the pay table provides.  You are doing an injustice to suggest otherwise.  And no one can play perfectly, so one can only expect to approach the return from the low side and never quite achieve it.

How can you say that, JM ? Have you NEVER won playing VP? I define 'winning' as more money than I started with. If I quit playing when this occurs, I won. Will I have a better chance of this with a stronger pay table - of course. But I can still win on a weaker pay table if I have some good fortune, and understand when to stop. Will I lose occasionally - you bet. Can I have multiple losing sessions playing VP - sure. But this can occur even on a positive EV pay table.
 
All I know is that (1) the casinos feel that they have the edge in every game in the casino, or else that game would not be there, and (2) the casinos WANT you to play longer, and will frequently incent you to do so, in order for them to extract the most profit. I choose to take control over how long I play, and not allow the casino to influence me into more play, especially if I am running cold. Is that so hard to understand?    

jm002546
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Post by jm002546 »


[QUOTE=jm002546] As Shadow said, there is NO strategy, management, ....NADA that can give you an expected return better than than the pay table provides.  You are doing an injustice to suggest otherwise.  And no one can play perfectly, so one can only expect to approach the return from the low side and never quite achieve it.
How can you say that, JM ? Have you NEVER won playing VP? I define 'winning' as more money than I started with. If I quit playing when this occurs, I won. Will I have a better chance of this with a stronger pay table - of course. But I can still win on a weaker pay table if I have some good fortune, and understand when to stop. Will I lose occasionally - you bet. Can I have multiple losing sessions playing VP - sure. But this can occur even on a positive EV pay table.
 
All I know is that (1) the casinos feel that they have the edge in every game in the casino, or else that game would not be there, and (2) the casinos WANT you to play longer, and will frequently incent you to do so, in order for them to extract the most profit. I choose to take control over how long I play, and not allow the casino to influence me into more play, especially if I am running cold. Is that so hard to understand?    Obviously you are going to win some hands and some sessions but the sum of your results will be expected to NEVER exceed the pay table.  You can't change that. [/QUOTE]

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